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The Sub 11 Ironman Thread
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1162
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also been doing the Sweetspot rides on Zwift and find them more mentally taxing that physically, like Stenard says. I have also done single blocks of SS up to 90 minutes before, which is incredibly dull.

Just got back from a 2 hour ride outside. NP for the ride was 244W from an FTP of 277, so on the lower end of the Sweetspot range, but it felt pretty comfortable compared to if I was doing it on the turbo.

Netted me an average speed of just over 21mph on rough and rolling Kentish countryside roads, so quite pleased with how it's going at the moment. Broken rib was a non-issue!
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Tri'ing Swimmer




Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilleusPhogg wrote:

Assuming you know you're FTP and so are doing them at the right level, I thought the whole point is that they aren't too taxing, such that 2x20 should be an effort, but not too bad, since after all you're doing 40 mins at ~90% of a pace you should be able to hold for an hour.


Agreed, should physically be able to do at least an hour at SS. I reckon I could, but far less confident I could ever hold my supposed FTP for an hour - 2x20 with 10 recovery has me close to the edge hence not sure 20min test is completely accurate for me.

Largely irrelevant in my case mind, as won't be measuring power once I do get outside so just been a way of monitoring progress over the winter.
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Tri'ing Swimmer




Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
I think the other thing to factor in is not physical fatigue, but mental fatigue. Just finished reading Iron War, and it goes into this in a bit of detail.

This guy has established a relationship between the effects of mental fatigue on endurance performance. So if you aren't well rested, or your mind has been challenged after a stressful day, your performance may not be what it should be, even though physically you are fairly fresh.


Thought I saw some things on this a couple of years ago but never heard anything since, stemming from some of Tim Noakes work on central fatigue. Seem to recall one research study of pro's doing an hour of mind-numbing tasks before their base runs to try improve endurance, since they were already at point where couldn't run more due to physical stress.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did my longest run since the Cotswold 226 on Monday (11 miles in Zone 2). It felt fine at the time, but my legs were struggling yesterday! Pretty useless on the Turbo yesterday; but I guess 11 miles on the road does take some getting used to again from a muscular perspective...the engine has never been a problem.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14189
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I did my longest run since the Cotswold 226 on Monday (11 miles in Zone 2). It felt fine at the time, but my legs were struggling yesterday! Pretty useless on the Turbo yesterday; but I guess 11 miles on the road does take some getting used to again from a muscular perspective...the engine has never been a problem.


what was your previous longest?
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 15989
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I did my longest run since the Cotswold 226 on Monday (11 miles in Zone 2). It felt fine at the time, but my legs were struggling yesterday! Pretty useless on the Turbo yesterday; but I guess 11 miles on the road does take some getting used to again from a muscular perspective...the engine has never been a problem.


what was your previous longest?


9.something on several occasions, so actually not much difference; just age catching up with me.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I did my longest run since the Cotswold 226 on Monday (11 miles in Zone 2). It felt fine at the time, but my legs were struggling yesterday! Pretty useless on the Turbo yesterday; but I guess 11 miles on the road does take some getting used to again from a muscular perspective...the engine has never been a problem.


what was your previous longest?


9.something on several occasions, so actually not much difference; just age catching up with me.


wait til you're struggling to do 5...
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daetho




Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just getting into the swing of my training and then dodgy knee followed by hamstring strain. Physio suggested it was flat feet/fallen arch but said it would be okay to run on as long as I was stretching and using a roller but then it cramped up and now I'm limping even when walking.

Anyone else had fallen arch? Physio said to get insoles but from what I've read online it says to strength the foot muscles which I think sounds like better way forward.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1579
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 mile run last night, 15 min build then 3 x 2 mile and easy warm down.
Tonight - 90 min turbo with 2 x 20min SS with 30secs @ 120% FTP every 4.5 mins then 3 x 2min @120%.

Legs feeling it now. Easy spin tomorrow ready for a hard weekend.

My average HR is coming down slowly for the same power/pace so some progress being made.
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1550
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good going PCP. Smile

A frustrating time for me. My foot injury flared up just before the Hampton Court Half so had to dns, then this week I ve had a cold wich put paid to the first three days. The only good news is that this week was a rest week on my TR plan anyway. Did a TR session last night which went ok, another hour tonight then a long bike tomorrow. Going to fit in a couple of short 3-4m runs just to test my foot out.

daetho, I literally feel your pain, except I have abnormally high arches. I ,ve got some foam orthotics which help support the front of my foot but I still have issues. I Should do a lot more stretching of the lower calf and achilles too.
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Krispy




Joined: 14 Dec 2016
Posts: 10
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reflections 7 weeks in:

Run: Stop start first couple of weeks, with recurring calf strain on return to training. Frustrating to feel heavy and out of shape, but definitely heading in the direction. Clocked 1hr30 @Thorpe Park Half, approx 30secs/mile down on equivalent performance last year. Slogged 2hr34 @Thanet20, but would like to think I would've hit 2hr30 if the conditions hadn't been so grim.

London marathon just 7 weeks away. Sub 3hr? Ha... not a chance. Shelved until 2018. Realistically looking at 3hr10-15, which would not be a bad day out.

That 20 was my first long run of the year, big jump up from a half the week before. Conversely, the first mile of the half was also my fastest of 2017. Zero speed work to date. And I guess that paints the picture of what needs to happen.

Swim: Sacked off the gym membership and associated ambitions of getting there in time before work. Attempting to attend as many of x2 weekly Tri Club swims as commitments allow. Feel like I'm already moving better than I've ever done previously (extra buoyancy?), so this is a success.

Bike: 2nd FTP test (following rest week), executed better than the first. Estimate 299W @93kg (from 259W @94.5kg). Hope to keep nudging both numbers in opposite directions, through 1 or 2 interval sessions on the turbo (SS / Threshold / vo2), complimented by long ride at the weekend.

And that is where reality bites. My intention is to hit 80% of planned sessions. Strava paints a picture closer to to 60%. And for the last three weekends, that big bike has fallen by the wayside. Volume has suffered, the bread and butter of IM training. What pains me the most is that I love being out on the bike... pretty much my whole reason for doing this!

2017 stats:
Bike: 302m / 19hr24
Run: 114m / 15hr
Swim: 18k yds / 5hr27

Not panicking yet... a long season ahead
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 15989
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kripsy - how much weight do you you think you could shed over the next few months? I ask because aside from w/kg, the smaller you are physically the lower your CdA could be, and the easier it will become to get more aero.

My point is that, whilst two riders might have the same w/kg, their CdA will be what gives the smaller rider the added advantage; especially as you're talking potentially >20kg difference between you and another 3.2w/kg rider for example.
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Krispy




Joined: 14 Dec 2016
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Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Kripsy - how much weight do you you think you could shed over the next few months?


Target sub 90kg. Mirror test shows there is still plenty of scope to trim "bad weight".

I'm a good 6"4 (195cm) with relatively broad frame. I therefore have to cut a big hole through the air. I'm experimenting with a slightly lower front end on the turbo (10mm), not yet convinced about how sustainable over long distance. Bring on the summer.

I'm targeting flatter races so agree w/CdA is of greater importance. Dropping the weight also offers great value on the run!
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 781
Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
I'm not very likely to go Sub 11 this year.

I have done several 11:xx with my best being 11:09 at Copenhagen 2013. I could definitely gone under during that race but a few mistakes cost me.

But this year 11 Is not on the cards...Because Wales!

So My target of Sub-12 in Wales is a fairly similar Target to sub-11 flat.

And there is no sub 12 thread active

My Targets are:

Swim 1:10

Bike 6:30

Run 4:00

Transition 0:19:99 ( incl 1k transition run)

Should be manageable.



First order of business is getting down from 216lbs!!!!



Well a very strict, very tedious, very low carb diet has seen me drop 18lbs since that post! Still another 18lbs should be doable before summer! Race target is 175lbs.

Running has seen obvious improvements from that weight loss. Got my first HM of the season coming up which will be the first acid test. PB is 1:32 but anything near 1:35 will be considered a success for me.

Swimming is kind of just a nice fitness session ATM. I'm not making many speed gains but my endurance is coming on great. I never really do much with the swim until the open water season starts. I'm only getting to the pool 1x a week atm.

Not been out on the Bike yet but the turbo work is going great. I'm doing the HIM build (LV) plan on TR. Then will do the HIM Peak before a well timed HIM. then move on to the IM Peak before Wales.

I only use Virtual power but have seen big jumps in my "FTP" Saw a good 5% jump just from doing the tour of Sufferlandria! Looking forward to getting outside now!


TBH Its all a bit worrying I'm doing really well but September is still such a long way off, worried I might "burn out" in terms of motivation!


Krispy, looking at your numbers are you sure Sub11 is the right Target? wouldn't the Sub10 thread be better ?????
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Krispy




Joined: 14 Dec 2016
Posts: 10
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
Krispy, looking at your numbers are you sure Sub11 is the right Target? wouldn't the Sub10 thread be better ?????


Last summer, I had my ducks nicely regimented, and was starting to dream of a performance in the 10:30 ball park.

Crash + new baby + convalescence following operation = 6mths vanished without much in the way of training consistency. Trying to find my mojo again after this lay off is hard work. Constantly re-evaluating my ambitions.

Run+Bike are both responding well, but I'm still a way off where I'd like to be. Sub 11 is realistic but still a proper challenge.

Sleep? Distant memory. As is finding the motivation to jump on the turbo / pull trainers on after bathing the baby and (eventually) getting her down. 20mins @Threshold is better than nothing. That's all I managed last week.

3hr15 open marathon is my current goal... that probably translates to a 3hr45 IM marathon, depending on how well I pace the bike

Potential splits:
Swim: 1hr20
Bike: 5hr40
Run: 3hr45
T1+T2: 10mins
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