Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
The Sub 11 Ironman Thread
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 29, 30, 31 ... 40, 41, 42  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Training
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1246
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
I thought Iíd bring this thread back from the grave. Iím hoping to go well under 11 hours at Ironman Switzerland. Hopefully aiming for something in the region of:

Swim. 1:00
Bike 5:30
Run 3:45.

Confident about the first 2. The run, itís about managing/minimising injures and doing the conditioning work over the winter. Just aiming for 2 sessions per week in each discipline at the moment and not worrying about volume or pace. Whatever happens though, Iím looking forward to the training, which I havenít felt about tri for quite a while.


Did you read Mattsurf's report about Zurich this year, hopefully the heat won't be as much of a factor and a wetsuit legal swim.

Good luck with the sub 11, interesting to keep tabs. Any training races in the build-up 70.3's etc.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1768
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Jeff. Yes I did read Mattsurfís write up. I am sure I will be picking his brains about the bike route, in due course. Iím just starting to flesh out next season a bit more. I think Iíll go back to th New Forest to do one of the RNF HIM events and I think I will aim to do an Oly or two. I havenít properly raced a tri in years. Itís still a very long way away so it really is just about establishing a regular training pattern at the moment. Iím on 8 hrs/ week with 2 sessions per discipline plus a little SandC. This winter going to get my 5km run time down to sub 19 and really work on my swim technique. Biking will be predominantly turbo sessions.
_________________
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
My Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[b]Wheezy[/b] - that sounds incredibly similar to myself :D
Some nice split times for the IM there, those are relatively easy with a bit of volume and dedication...much harder off 8hrs per week :O
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17459
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To have a solid run (sub 4) not only do you need to pace the bike well, I would say you need to 'condition' yourself on a TT bike too. You can get away without doing the TT position miles in shorter events, but in IM, you'll pay the price if you're not used to the TT position for 100 miles plus.
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1768
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan- that side of things I'm not worried about at all. Having spent the last few years time trialling from 10m up to 12 hours, my body is well and truly moulded to my tt position! Smile At Outlaw last year I rode 5:38, which was very conservative (for comparison, a club mate who I had been only seconds apart from all year when TTing went 5:20. Passed him 10 miles into the run though Wink ). I reckon a 5:30 bike on the hillier IMCH course should be well within my reach, if not faster. The issue is running off the bike.

Like Poet says, two runs per week is not going to cut it. How I can get the volume of running I need while not getting injured is going to be the delicate balancing act. 8 hours is what I'm doing just to get back into tri training. That said, I'm probably not looking at more than 10-12 hrs average, except for a few big weeks where I can fit them in.
_________________
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
My Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PhilleusPhogg




Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
How I can get the volume of running I need while not getting injured is going to be the delicate balancing act.


Given you're looking at improving over 5K in the short term, and so presumably going to be doing some intervals for that, one tip would be to look at doing those on grass if not already?

My first club session back after a few weeks of no running ended up being a grass relay session instead of track (track was closed) and I was amazed how the next day or two there was hardly any stiffness/soreness, which I usually get first time back (I don't recover very quickly).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1768
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilleusPhogg wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
How I can get the volume of running I need while not getting injured is going to be the delicate balancing act.


Given you're looking at improving over 5K in the short term, and so presumably going to be doing some intervals for that, one tip would be to look at doing those on grass if not already?

My first club session back after a few weeks of no running ended up being a grass relay session instead of track (track was closed) and I was amazed how the next day or two there was hardly any stiffness/soreness, which I usually get first time back (I don't recover very quickly).


Thanks PP. Youíre reading my mind. Iím planning on only one interval session a fortnight at the moment, so one run of the 4. Other runs will be steady. Aiming to build up slowly for the next 6 weeks or so and then do a little more from mid-November. Thinking of working towards a half marathon in the Spring.
_________________
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
My Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1779

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Jorgan and some of the others felt I was running too much, but I built up steadily from the start of November through to my August race (with a winter of XC, HM focus in the spring, etc). The biggest difference was my "filler" runs. Before being coached, outside of my main sessions, I'd probably only generally throw in some steady 5k type runs every now and then. Quite quickly after I got my coach, I built up to at least one 60min run steady per week (with some strides to finish), outside of my main runs. Initially these still felt an effort, but they soon became a breeze. When 12k (which was the rough distance generally covered) becomes a walk in the park, the longer runs or more intense sessions, really began to take less of a toll.

It was actually the same with my swimming. Plugging in a 2k steady state swim on Mondays from the spring. I know hammerer again doesn't necessarily agree with continuous distance swims, but I still had club sessions and intervals during the rest of the week. Again, initially these felt really quite tough, yet by the summer I was just ticking them off easily. They progressed to 2.5k for about the final month of the main build. My muscle endurance in the rest of my swimming came on leaps and bounds.

There's obviously loads of different approaches available, but these worked for me. A sub3:30 marathon in my first IM was definitely a great indication the run focus paid off.

For reference, self coached I'd previous managed 3:04 and a fluffed 3:25 marathon times. So I effectively ran pretty close to my previous standalone capabilities.
_________________
My blog: https://stenardstuff.wordpress.com/
Random stuff and race reports
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree with those points, [b]stenard[/b]

It's the same for all disciplines.
You need to make each one become a breeze.

Swimming 4km? A breeze.
Can I do 25*100s off 1:45, after a 500m warm up? Then you can most likely swim under an hour easily.

How may 100 mile rides have you done?
112 miles is a long ass way. Some hilly hundreds help here.
Don't be a noggin and go out with other people for company, you want 5-6 hours into a headwind here ;-)

Do you even run, bro'?
Eating 12km for breakfast is much better than egg and chips.

It's not hard; it's keeping it up, day after day, week after week, month after month.

It is really, all about the bike (after an easy swim)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17459
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said, lots of opinions and approaches; also people just respond differently to various training. During my peak IM training, I'd normally just do 2 runs a week, one of an hour at tempo, and a long 2h+ one.

Now that life logistics & work allow, I'm going to try 'multiple run days' again next season like I did the year I PB'd. So run 3 miles to the station, get train to work, run at lunchtime, then run the 16km home.

My problem in recent years has generally been not enough bike volume and starting the run too fast.
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Jorgan"]My problem in recent years has generally been not enough bike volume and starting the run too fast.[/quote]

Or, you didn't run enough? So that tempo run taught you that quick speed to run (off the bike) and your perceived lack of bike volume is actually a steep decline in running form, due to low running volume?

WWCSD?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1832
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for the long post.

#PSE (project sub eleven) Laughing Rolling Eyes Starts today, just tested FTP and it is 2.94 w/kg.
262w and 10kg overweight at 89kg. Was 84kg in June Crying or Very sad
Target FTP 3.8 w/kg

Done 3 x IM swims at 1:05, 1:07, 1:10 so not too worried about that. Hopefully do 1:05 or close.

Never been a runner. HM PB of 1:33.
3 x IM runs of:
4:32 IMUK 2017 - Biked too hard after recurring mechanical. 1:55/2:38 halfs
4:58 IMWales 2016 - No running all summer due to slicing toe to the bone at Slateman
5:01 IMUK 2013 - ill out of both ends

IMUK 2019
1:05
5:55
3:50

If I can't do it at IMUK, I may look for a flatter race later in the year with better roads but the plan is to go all in to see if I can do it on my doorstep.

The plan is to stick to my plan, be consistent. I now work from home so have a few more opportunities to train and my twins are 5 in a couple of weeks so the struggle of them being babies is gone.
In the past I've had plans with way too many hours training in and become de-motivated when I've missed sessions.

I've built lots of shorter term goals in to tick off too and some fun long distance stuff to do with friends which I've never done before.

I've said a lot of things and not backed them up before but I've done a lot of thinking this year after not racing at all and hitting 40 and my best pal passing away has opened my eyes a bit.

12 months to give my best shot to get as fast as I can.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17459
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poet. wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
My problem in recent years has generally been not enough bike volume and starting the run too fast.


Or, you didn't run enough? So that tempo run taught you that quick speed to run (off the bike) and your perceived lack of bike volume is actually a steep decline in running form, due to low running volume?

WWCSD?


Question

You didn't read all my posts. I've run 3:30/33/34 off the back of similar run training to my bad runs. The difference has been my bike training, and my lack of judgement starting the run. That is, I did more bike volume the years I ran well, and exercised good pacing as a result of using HR/PRE rather than a GPS watch.

At the 113 in June, I forced myself to run by HR rather than pace. As a result, I did my first cramp-free HIM/IM run in donkey's years. It also helped that I took the bike very conservatively.

My point is, how you run in a Triathlon isn't just down to your run training.
_________________
26 Years since it all began....


Last edited by Jorgan on Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:07 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1620
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck man. Sounds like all the buliding blocks are in place, you're in the right headspace and you have a good plan ahead of you. Now to execute!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1768
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:

I've said a lot of things and not backed them up

12 months to give my best shot to get as fast as I can.


This Above

I've done two long course tris, and both times I've got around. First one was frankly horrible and the second one I really enjoyed. But for both I had extremely compromised training. In neither event did I do any proper run training for them. I want to do one, just one, and look back and say I gave it my best shot, that I did everything I could within the time and resources I have, to put in the best performance possible. I want to see what I'm capable of rather than constantly talking a good game (you've only got to look at the very first post in this thread!)
_________________
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
My Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Training All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 29, 30, 31 ... 40, 41, 42  Next
Page 30 of 42
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.