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The Sub 11 Ironman Thread
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1798
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mon: Rest
Tue:Rest
Wed:1hr TR turbo (Berryessa)
Thur:rest
Fri:1hr10m long commute home
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest.

Total: 2hrs 10 - 120TSS Sad

Early on in the week I thought that I had got over my cold but I seemed to get a second dose and felt rubbish from Tuesday evening. No real improvement at the moment so this week will probably be much the same. I'm not getting stressed about it, just treating this as a fortnight off and then get back some structure once I've got it out the way. It's also coincided with a very busy couple of weeks at work so could be worse.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Biking into work every day this week, so that has me up over 7h already; not loving the rain though. My weight seems to have jumped up to a 73.xkg plateau instead of the usual 72.x too.

Water retention?


Rather than calorie retention? Very Happy
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Davem




Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 6145
Location: Out of retirement...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last week -

Sat - Rest
Sun - 8 mile run @8:45/miles
Mon - Rest (4 hour commute)
Tue - Run - 4 miles easy
Wed - Swim 2.5K (5 * 50mtrs off 8:30)
Thur - Rest (4 hour return commute)
Fri - Rest
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1938
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last week -
2 swims
2 runs
1 bike
3.5 hours.

Was clearly still ill given my HR and power/pace mismatch.

Was away for the weekend and worked in London today so just got in from now from a 5am start.
Feeling a lot fresher for a consistent week. Hopefully, the chest has settled down.
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just copying this over from the other thread - I'll remember where we're posting these one week Wink

Quote:
Light week on volume, was meant to be a bit harder on the old intensity stuff.

Swim - 45mins
Bike - 5hr 8mins
Runs - 2hr 7mins
Total - 8hrs

Missed the swim one lunchtime, due to work commitments.
All runs were easy with the dog (one should have been a pyramid, the other a tempo)
A couple of rides were hard - Tuesday WattBike session was a killer, then the Friday ride was a ride I *just had to* split into three... Wink

No niggles have surfaced, so am just pressing on with what I've planned for myself.
Got the four weekly FTP test this week, plus a CSS test in a 25m pool ( Jorgan Wink), a shorter hilly bike and a 100km pulling the club round the lanes of Cheshire on Sunday.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sit bones are still problematic on hard chairs. That's the Alpe for you Very Happy
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took a trip to the local 25m pool this morning to conduct a CSS test (and to see if the 20m pool is really that disparate from a 25m one...)

To answer the latter, yes. About 3s per 100m slower, which seems about right.
Did 4*100s just under 1:30/100m as part of the warm up Very Happy

400TT in 5:56
200TT in 2:57

CSS pace is 1:30/100m, which I kind of knew.
Good to know I can still rip out a 400m swim under 6 minutes, though I am sure I could not have ran to my bike afterwards Rofl
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1855

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. The thing is, I don't think it's just the length of the pool. I think other aspects of the pool can make a massive difference as well.

An example ...
My gym pool is 20m
The pool I do club sessions (200m from my house) is 25m
I have access to the 50m Brockwell Lido and 100 yard (91.5m) Tooting Lido
I swam for the first time in another pool near work on Monday which was 30m.

Serious differences in lengths. The two I swim most in are the top two.

I have been regularly holding 2k continuous sets in the 20m pool all year (Monday's) and have seen a steady increase in pace. Latest PB was set a month ago where I managed 31:13, which is 1:33/100. That was 10s faster than my previous PB set right at the start of my IM taper.

At my club sessions, we won't do anywhere near that kind of duration. But I generally find that pool fast. Take this morning. My "easy" 300s were 4:42 and 4:39. My "faster" 300s were 4:29 and 4:30. Those easy's are about the same pace as a prolonged effort in the 20m pool, so I wouldn't say there was an obvious drop off. I've done solo sets of 15*100 and 20*100 in that same 25m pool. Those have generally landed the same kind of pace again ... about 1:33/100.

There was a slight drop off when I did my last big session of my IM build in the 50m outdoor Brockwell lido. No wetsuit. 40*100 with an average of about 1:37 or 1:38 (range was 1:35 - 1:41). So slower, but it was also a much longer set.

And then you come to Monday. Everywhere says its a 30m pool. Online, the lifeguard who I checked with, etc. If 30m is accurate, I swam a continuous 2,250m in 38:30. That's 1:42/100. Way slower than what I've roughly held as "endurance pace" in my regular 20 and 25m pools, and even the 50m lido.

My point - I think it's really hard in a one off swim to compare swimming speed between different pools. I think you need a body of evidence and be in the midst of decent swim fitness to be able to compare, mainly on an RPE basis. I have no idea what could cause a pool to be that much slower (I know design can play a big part, but don't really understand what's fast and slow), but without regularly swimming in a particular pool, you can read a lot into times that are not necessarily representative. It's why I generally try and ensure similar sets are in the same pool, so at least I can track progress like for like.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17719
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
I have no idea what could cause a pool to be that much slower (I know design can play a big part, but don't really understand what's fast and slow)


Deeper is faster, anti-turbulence lane lines of course and a 'proper' level deck, especially if you swim next to the side like I do, which is mainly a wall with no gutter - a bit is cheaply executed level-deck. Water temperature affects speed too; colder water is more viscous.
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8648
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

30m sounds like an odd distance for a pool. 33m used to be quite common, so 3 lengths per 100m. 33m would put you back on your usual pace.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1855

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
30m sounds like an odd distance for a pool. 33m used to be quite common, so 3 lengths per 100m. 33m would put you back on your usual pace.
Yeah, I thought that. But the lifeguard and normal online resources all say 30m: https://www.swimming.org/poolfinder/pools/1002367/London/Porchester+Centre/

Actually, searching again, I just found this one which says 33 1/3 yards, or 30.45m https://www.swimmersguide.com/viewfacility?FacilityID=6745

It was definitely a really old pool, with rusted grates under the waterline in the walls, etc. So it would make sense to be some kind of imperial distance like Tooting lido. If that is the case, it was still slow though. It did have really high walls at each end, so as Jorgan says, that could well make things slower (plus, as I can't tumble, my touch turns were not particularly fast!)
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1938
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSS test done.

400 - 6:43
200 - 3:10

CSS pace - 1:47

400 lap splits
23
23
24
24
25
25
25
25
26
26
26
27
27
26
25
25

Fairly consistent after a 1:35 first 400 Rolling Eyes
Still need to pace better but an improvement on my 400 time. Long was off my 5:58 PB though. Need to learn to tumble turn and save an instant 15 seconds Very Happy
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you do a 400 TT, I find if I hold back a little for the first 100, I can then just go flat-out for the last 300 without much chance of blowing.
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
...Need to learn to tumble turn and save an instant 15 seconds Very Happy


That last 75m looks painful!

Do you think a tumble really saves 1s per length?
I find not doing them more tiring, too. Requires so much more effort.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1938
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last 75 I was kicking like mad and blowing out of my a$$.
If I'd done the first 100 at 25 sec a length like the 2nd 100 then I probably would have found more than the 6 seconds lost.

I'm not sure about 1 sec per length - just what I've been told in the past but could be nonsense.
It has to be faster though or nobody would do it.
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