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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't think that VO2 max was 'trainable'. I thought that it was a pretty fixed value? Confused
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Pedro Peru




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is trainable, it's more that if you target your training specifically to improve it you hit the ceiling relatively quickly. My Garmin score is always quite low (only use Garmin for running) and then I do a 10km or some other running race and it jumps up by over 10 points.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedro Peru wrote:
It is trainable, it's more that if you target your training specifically to improve it you hit the ceiling relatively quickly. My Garmin score is always quite low (only use Garmin for running) and then I do a 10km or some other running race and it jumps up by over 10 points.


Yes, you have to do some threshold sessions to improve it! But in that respect it's no different to any other endurance sport.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
My VO2 Max increased from 57 to 58 for both run and bike, I suspect that this is due to much fresher legs


What's giving you that, TP or Garmin? I've found doing races on Zwift has brought my bike VO2 Max up close to my run numbers now (63/64).


These are from Garmin. Typically my Bike VO2 Max is higher than run, although they are almost always within 1 point of each other

Interesting. I'm impressed by your numbers Jorgan! I have a much larger disparity than both of you. Even in the midst of IM training last year when I was doing my highest ever bike volume. Although I guess that was largely steady state, and I didn't do much, if any, vo2 work.

The lack of any real cycling this calendar year has my current numbers nearly 10 points apart according to my watch!



Garmin gave me a new bike VO2 max of 62 today, this is the highest it has been

TP also has my CTL at 100, up from 60 on 1st Jan
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:

Even in the midst of IM training last year when I was doing my highest ever bike volume. Although I guess that was largely steady state, and I didn't do much, if any, VO2 work.


I think you've identified why your bike VO2 Max was 'supressed'. It obviously didn't affect your Ironman performance though. In fact what you might find is I would beast you at Sprint/Olys, but you would school me over the long distance, because of how our bodies were 'conditioned'.

In fact, I tend to fare much better in my AG in shorter events, than I do at HIM/IM. But you gotta do Ironman right? Rolling Eyes Laughing
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stenard




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely true. I did a couple of olympic distance events last year, and hated them. I could muster little more than HIM power, or HIM run pace, and so it kinda became a question of "what's the point".
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll share a little secret with you. I always loved racing the short non-standard events in the 90s, and yet even then Ironman was somehow the 'Holy Grail'. It wasn't until 2008 I finally started doing LD, but even then it's only because it's almost 'the done thing'...just look at the pros who move-up in distance. Unfortunately, this market demand has also killed-off a lot of Oly Dist events and the like.

Ultimately, I'm just a short-course guy who feels the need to go on a journey of self discovery/flagellation now & then. I have found out a lot more about myself doing LD than I ever did racing short tbh. WTC do put on a great show too Smile
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stenard




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing for me is cost. I'd now much rather pay a significant amount of money for something that will last half a day or more, than a not insignificant amount of money for something that will last 1-2hrs.

Some olys are now charging nearly 100 in this country. That's outrageous. Way more so than IM fees.

And that's before you get into logistics. Hiring a car, travel, overnight accommodation, etc, is much more justifiable when I'm travelling for a HIM or IM distance race. I've lost interest in doing all of that for olympic distance.

I still don't mind sprints ... they're just a bit of fun for an hour blast, and there are a fair number of them within the M25 that mean I can be home by early/mid-morning on a Sunday.
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, the market for Olympic distance tris seems to have been squeezed by first timer novice sprints at one end and half/full big day out events at the other. If you race Oly distance you probably tend to race more often in the year, but finding enough events local that don't need an overnight trip is hard. Then there is no 'big race feel' event unless you count Leeds ITU or maybe London Tri.

I prefer smaller events and shorter events, but I seem to be in the minority and my options seem to become more limited every year. To the extent that I am using an early season half as preparation for Oly distance races later in the year, and haven't yet identified a mid-summer event to target.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They arent helping themselves with pricing. I did Leeds Castle Tri the first year they held it. It's a good event. But at 87.50 before any other fees, that's a lot to stump up for the same kind of bike course you can get for a 10 CTT time trial along a dual carriageway!
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...which brings us back to the non-standardised distance short events. Cornwall has quite a few iconic ones, Perranporth in particular (yes it involves travel - I stay at my parents in Plymouth en-route). There's an evening OW Sprint series local to me too, which is 30-odd quid iirc (550/18/4k).
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Buzz_




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
They arent helping themselves with pricing. I did Leeds Castle Tri the first year they held it. It's a good event. But at 87.50 before any other fees, that's a lot to stump up for the same kind of bike course you can get for a 10 CTT time trial along a dual carriageway!

Agree, but their costs are going to be very similar to the costs of someone running a half, yet the person running the half can charge 50% more. So why would you organise an Oly distance event? Add in the marketing around tri is all geared to first timer sprint events or long distance 'branded' and the demand Olympic events is probably not there.

A marathon is considered a destination event for less than 3 hours effort. Why wouldn't an Oly tri be the same?
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
...which brings us back to the non-standardised distance short events. Cornwall has quite a few iconic ones, Perranporth in particular (yes it involves travel - I stay at my parents in Plymouth en-route). There's an evening OW Sprint series local to me too, which is 30-odd quid iirc (550/18/4k).


There's an interesting looking event on Lake Constance called the 111 Triathlon: 1km Swim, 100km bike, 10km run, ideal for strong cyclists and weaker run/swimmers

I find Sprints brutally painful, I will do an early season event and probably regret it.

I do enjoy an OD race, especially a local one, typically you can be finished not much after 10am leaving the rest of the day free. The local ones in the UK aren't that competitive, so can occasionally get a podium (OK, it happened once). 3 years ago, around Salisbury there were loads of OD races, all within an hour drive, I was doing one every 3 weeks or so.
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JeffB




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We still have a few sprints\olys locally but they are dying off. Some do get quite expensive though. The issue I have is the swimming, it's hard to catch people who are really good swimmers over those distances.

With Ironman it's the big event feel and that people see it as more of an achievement, it sounds macho!!

I'm hoping to do a few smaller races this year, I did a draft legal sprint a few years ago which was good fun and I'm thinking of doing the local draft legal sprint duathlon in a few weeks.

Although there's always that draw to do an Ironman.

Then there's always the odd distance but challenging races like Helvellyn, Slateman etc., really enjoy doing those.

Jeff
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:
The issue I have is the swimming, it's hard to catch people who are really good swimmers over those distances.


Nail head. People don't like Oly or ITU Sprint distance, as it doesn't 'favour' weak swimmers i.e. it's an equitable distribution of the disciplines Smile For that reason I like these events.

You are 'punished' for paying lip service to swimming.
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