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The Sub 11 Ironman Thread
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 773
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
JeffB wrote:
The issue I have is the swimming, it's hard to catch people who are really good swimmers over those distances.


Nail head. People don't like Oly or ITU Sprint distance, as it doesn't 'favour' weak swimmers i.e. it's an equitable distribution of the disciplines Smile For that reason I like these events.

You are 'punished' for paying lip service to swimming.


On a good day, with a lot of drafting I can swim an OD at 1:45/100, I give away 15s/100 to good swimmers, so lose 3m45 seconds - even in an Olympic distance this is recoverable, as the best swimmers don't tend to be the best cyclists or runners

It took me a long time to get from 2m/100m to 1:45/100m, I am never going to be a great swimmer, but could probably get down to below 1:40, however, the benefit vs effort to do so is not as great as the benefit I can get from focusing on my run
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:

On a good day, with a lot of drafting I can swim an OD at 1:45/100, I give away 15s/100 to good swimmers, so lose 3m45 seconds - I would then blow a gasket trying to catch you on the bike, only for you to then run-off into sunset


Very Happy
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 773
Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:

On a good day, with a lot of drafting I can swim an OD at 1:45/100, I give away 15s/100 to good swimmers, so lose 3m45 seconds - I would then blow a gasket trying to catch you on the bike, only for you to then run-off into sunset


Very Happy


My normal race plan
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 454

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
My VO2 Max increased from 57 to 58 for both run and bike, I suspect that this is due to much fresher legs


What's giving you that, TP or Garmin? I've found doing races on Zwift has brought my bike VO2 Max up close to my run numbers now (63/64).


63/64.

And you can't beat 10 hours?

Are you sure you are trying hard in the race?! Wink
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
My VO2 Max increased from 57 to 58 for both run and bike, I suspect that this is due to much fresher legs


What's giving you that, TP or Garmin? I've found doing races on Zwift has brought my bike VO2 Max up close to my run numbers now (63/64).


63/64. And you can't beat 10 hours? Are you sure you are trying hard in the race?! Wink


^^ yet I've done a 2:07 Oly in the same era; see my previous about 'conditioning'.

Let's see how you shape-up in Hamburg Twisted Evil What AG are you?
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
My VO2 Max increased from 57 to 58 for both run and bike, I suspect that this is due to much fresher legs


What's giving you that, TP or Garmin? I've found doing races on Zwift has brought my bike VO2 Max up close to my run numbers now (63/64).


63/64. And you can't beat 10 hours? Are you sure you are trying hard in the race?! Wink


^^ yet I've done a 2:07 Oly in the same era; see my previous about 'conditioning'.

Let's see how you shape-up in Hamburg Twisted Evil What AG are you?



Ha. Smile
40-44. My VO2max is only about 56. So I'll be happy to go sub 10.30, or knock off my 10.09 PB.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15995
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
My VO2 Max increased from 57 to 58 for both run and bike, I suspect that this is due to much fresher legs


What's giving you that, TP or Garmin? I've found doing races on Zwift has brought my bike VO2 Max up close to my run numbers now (63/64).


63/64. And you can't beat 10 hours? Are you sure you are trying hard in the race?! Wink


^^ yet I've done a 2:07 Oly in the same era; see my previous about 'conditioning'.

Let's see how you shape-up in Hamburg Twisted Evil What AG are you?



Ha. Smile
40-44. My VO2max is only about 56. So I'll be happy to go sub 10.30, or knock off my 10.09 PB.


A Garmin calculated 59 as a 55 year old...down from 69.23 aged 43...but i have never been very efficient....
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1351
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
My VO2 Max increased from 57 to 58 for both run and bike, I suspect that this is due to much fresher legs


What's giving you that, TP or Garmin? I've found doing races on Zwift has brought my bike VO2 Max up close to my run numbers now (63/64).


63/64. And you can't beat 10 hours? Are you sure you are trying hard in the race?! Wink


^^ yet I've done a 2:07 Oly in the same era; see my previous about 'conditioning'.

Let's see how you shape-up in Hamburg Twisted Evil What AG are you?



Ha. Smile
40-44. My VO2max is only about 56. So I'll be happy to go sub 10.30, or knock off my 10.09 PB.


On that course and any flat IM I suspect your CDA and ability to hold it for sub 5 hours will be what counts.

3:45 run is doable even with a run\walk strategy, so even a 65-70 swim gets you in with a chance of sub 10.

Or are we on the wrong thread.

As Jorgan says, some people are better at going fast over short distances and but it doesn't necessarily carry over to longer races if you don't train correctly, especially the bike.

How's the calf Jorgan. BTW, I'm not a great swimmer but not totally pants, as you say if you don't train for it you won't do it on race day.

Jeff
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Tri'ing Swimmer




Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
mattsurf wrote:

On a good day, with a lot of drafting I can swim an OD at 1:45/100, I give away 30s/100 to good swimmers, so lose 8 minutes - I would then blow a gasket trying to catch and get 8 minutes ahead, only for you to then claw me back on the run


Very Happy


FTFY
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 18058
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:

How's the calf Jorgan.


I've been doing my traditional frenzy of foam rolling, trigger-pointing with a ball and calf raises on the stairs to treat it. Used the treadmill at home on Tue for 30 min & it was fine (the kids pestering me to judge their karate, then dance moves was slightly diverting!). Will try for an hour on the treadmill at the gym today.

Generally calf issues are a sign that I need new running shoes and/or too much running on concrete. Normally it's the former. Thinking of trying the Vomero again, since it's full air and it's an IM year. Currently have a couple of pairs of Zoom Fly, of which one pair is now clearly dead.
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
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Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
JeffB wrote:

How's the calf Jorgan.


Generally calf issues are a sign that I need new running shoes and/or too much running on concrete. Normally it's the former. Thinking of trying the Vomero again, since it's full air and it's an IM year. Currently have a couple of pairs of Zoom Fly, of which one pair is now clearly dead.


Similar for me, I try not to run on really hard concrete\tarmac too much, especially for long runs, but sometimes you've got to condition the legs for what you'll be racing on. I get a lot more than 500 miles out of trainers, although it's a noticeable difference in support\feeling when you get a new pair out.

I tend to use Brooks Adrenaline for my mileage\training shoes of choice. Also work well for lots of walking around cities etc.

How did the treadmill go?

I also seem to have a tipping point of about 40 miles per week, I can go over for a few weeks if training for a marathon etc. and drop the cycling, but too long and it's curtains. On the other hand I can do a reasonable marathon on about 25-30 MPW with a bit of quality, and some longer rides.

Jeff
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:

How did the treadmill go?

I also seem to have a tipping point of about 40 miles per week, I can go over for a few weeks if training for a marathon etc. and drop the cycling, but too long and it's curtains. On the other hand I can do a reasonable marathon on about 25-30 MPW with a bit of quality, and some longer rides.


Did just shy of an hour, with 30 min at 4:03-07 pace which took me into threshold after a few mins. I need to start upping the mileage soon, as it's actually 'only' about 3 months until my Half. I shall do some run-to-work days, which is about 70 min each way; that or bike-in-run-home, and the reverse the following day. Not much scope for off-road in those runs though.
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5.5hrs last week, but nearly all running, including my longest run since Outlaw 2017, with a gentle 16 miler on Saturday. Still struggling to get back to my full 10hr ish week with Mrs Wheezy still being under the weather, but I'm really enjoying regularly lacing up my running pumps again. Smile
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New bike & run VO2 detected today after my Zwift/Run. 64/65. Suckers!!
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, so doing a Zwift race followed by a 41 min Brick run took more out of me than I'd anticipated. Go figure! I shouldn't be surprised, as it's my first Brick after Zwift racing, and an undulating 8km-odd (4:40/km) is probably a fair ask after riding at or above threshold for nearly 50 mins. In fact my best 20 min power was above FTP.

I've been 'fragged' the last few days, unsurprisingly.
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