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carvegybe




Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy916 wrote:
The particle size thing is an advance on simple LDL/HDL/TG (by the way it's the latter that correlates with CHD)

Be interested to see some references for correlation between TG and CHD
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dss123




Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 814
Location: Leicester

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy916 wrote:

Yes, LDL particle size appears to be important, but it's still just a theory with a bunch of population level data in support rather than mechanistic understanding. The theory is that the endothelium is susceptible to intrusion
by the small dense particles and not to the large 'fluffy' ones. But do you know the difference in diameter between the two? It's 20% absolute maximum, 19-20.5nm as opposed to 20.6-23.0nm. Not exactly consistent with the popular view of them being massively distinct, is it? It's a continuum divided by a pair of fairly arbitrary categories. Also, there's no recognised standard yet for the various particle size estimation methods.


True enough but it's not merely physical size that affects the atherogenicity of small dense LDL (pattern b). Particularly the oxidative susceptibility (which increases) and antioxidant levels (which decrease) with particle size.

And I think there are other fundamental differences between particle types beyond size.

Interestingly very low fat, high CHO diets can inrease % of small dense LDL - particularly in those who are genetically predisposed to the pattern b phenotype.

As for daily / weekly fluctuations.... Interesting study here showing levels are far from stable...

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=652985

As with most things relating to human biology, drawing conclusions from a single snapshot is risky. Even more so if that snap shot is taken in a supermarket by somebody wearing a Flora Pro-Activ T-Shirt Wink

Dunc
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2266
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update

I've cut way back on saturated fats since Christmas, but not completely - sadly lots of chocs and cheese still lying around. I've also switched to fruit for breakfast/lunch on some days and brought rice bread and pasta back into my diet. Most days sat fats under 10g, in the last fortnight a couple of days at 20 and. 30g.

Last four weeks have been 1-2hrs mostly running, per week.

I'm getting a thyroid function test this week, so should have results next week.
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newarktricky




Joined: 11 May 2007
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Location: Newark-on-Trent, Notts

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carvegybe wrote:
Andy916 wrote:
The particle size thing is an advance on simple LDL/HDL/TG (by the way it's the latter that correlates with CHD)

Be interested to see some references for correlation between TG and CHD


I'm not aware of any proven correlation between high triglycerides and mortality...

NT Very Happy Very Happy
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carvegybe




Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newarktricky wrote:
carvegybe wrote:
Andy916 wrote:
The particle size thing is an advance on simple LDL/HDL/TG (by the way it's the latter that correlates with CHD)

Be interested to see some references for correlation between TG and CHD


I'm not aware of any proven correlation between high triglycerides and mortality...

NT Very Happy Very Happy


me neither, that's why I asked Smile
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MTriton




Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 805
Location: N Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carvegybe wrote:
newarktricky wrote:
carvegybe wrote:
Andy916 wrote:
The particle size thing is an advance on simple LDL/HDL/TG (by the way it's the latter that correlates with CHD)

Be interested to see some references for correlation between TG and CHD


I'm not aware of any proven correlation between high triglycerides and mortality...

NT Very Happy Very Happy


me neither, that's why I asked Smile

No carvegybe you asked about correlation between TG and CHD, which is very different from the correlation between TG and all cause mortality.
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:


Yeah, three months is the next blood test. If it hasn't come down, he'll prescribe medication - I'd rather avoid that.


Blimey three years went quickly...finally had another blood test his morning.

Good news but not dramatically so. I still have marginally high cholesterol, and marginally high "bad" cholesterol but the physiologist doesn't think a GP would recommend statins on the numbers I have.

Marginally high blood pressure too, so I'll try to see my doc before Christmas.

I guess I was hoping that long distance training would blow away all the bad stuff Wink
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 301
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:


Yeah, three months is the next blood test. If it hasn't come down, he'll prescribe medication - I'd rather avoid that.


Blimey three years went quickly...finally had another blood test his morning.

Good news but not dramatically so. I still have marginally high cholesterol, and marginally high "bad" cholesterol but the physiologist doesn't think a GP would recommend statins on the numbers I have.

Marginally high blood pressure too, so I'll try to see my doc before Christmas.

I guess I was hoping that long distance training would blow away all the bad stuff Wink


I was diagnosed with HBP in 2005, have been on meds since then to control it.

Diet and exercise have made little difference to it, so meds it is.

Some people are pre disposed to these things
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1042
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of interest what do you class as HBP, when I've looked the ranges are somewhat fluid.

I've had one or two tests at work and they've said to watch it, but when I've checked in different surroundings it has been alright.

Put someone in front of me in a white coat and it goes through the roof Sad

Jeff
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 301
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:
Out of interest what do you class as HBP, when I've looked the ranges are somewhat fluid.

I've had one or two tests at work and they've said to watch it, but when I've checked in different surroundings it has been alright.

Put someone in front of me in a white coat and it goes through the roof Sad

Jeff


When first diagnosed it was 140/90. Meds control it but like you I get white coat syndrome too!

If I take it in the house it's normal.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omega 3s for reducing cholesterol- walnuts and chia seeds
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 301
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Omega 3s for reducing cholesterol- walnuts and chia seeds


Every day JC.

Don't drink, don't smoke and I wouldn't say my job is stressful.

Only real vice is crisps and biscuits, only at weekends, but boy can I put them away!

I have a bit of a belly, always have.
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Lovelytrees




Joined: 06 Nov 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting reads here. I have high cholesterol myself and training at the same time so I've been learning. Smile
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Andy916




Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 657
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roscoemck wrote:
I have a bit of a belly, always have.


Did you have that belly as a kid or teenager? Probably not.

If BP is normal away from the doc in the white coat then it IS normal. You seem to be taking meds for white coat syndrome. BP monitors are cheap, and you can easily do repeated measurements to establish their consistency. Likewise blood glucose monitors, which you can use to check glycaemic control.

You might want to read some background on LDL particle size/composition/oxidation and reconsider your high carb diet. Your GP, talking in terms of good and bad cholesterol, may well be unaware of the last 10-20 years' reseach in that area.
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 301
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy916 wrote:
Roscoemck wrote:
I have a bit of a belly, always have.


Did you have that belly as a kid or teenager? Probably not.

If BP is normal away from the doc in the white coat then it IS normal. You seem to be taking meds for white coat syndrome. BP monitors are cheap, and you can easily do repeated measurements to establish their consistency. Likewise blood glucose monitors, which you can use to check glycaemic control.

You might want to read some background on LDL particle size/composition/oxidation and reconsider your high carb diet. Your GP, talking in terms of good and bad cholesterol, may well be unaware of the last 10-20 years' reseach in that area.


Thanks for that. I'll have a look into it
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