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New BTF Rulebook for 2016 - read and adapt!
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fimm




Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the point of having drafting rules when they put on races where there are more competitors than you can physically fit on the course 10 meters apart?
(Liverpool Standard on Sunday. I exaggerate, I suspect, but 850-odd people finished and most of us were on the 4 x 10km loop at the same time. I'm normally very rigorous about keeping my 10m and I didn't even bother trying.)
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fimm wrote:
What is the point of having drafting rules when they put on races where there are more competitors than you can physically fit on the course 10 meters apart?
(Liverpool Standard on Sunday. I exaggerate, I suspect, but 850-odd people finished and most of us were on the 4 x 10km loop at the same time. I'm normally very rigorous about keeping my 10m and I didn't even bother trying.)


That's one of the reasons I avoid those events
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I was at a local OW Sprint last week, and was wearing my sleeved Castelli Sanremo suit. The Ref told me that technically, sleeved suits were not permitted under wetsuits any more; and at 'bigger' BTF events (Champs etc) the rule would be enforced. He agreed it was a silly rule.

Is this true? (ffs)


much as I would hate to disagree with a fellow TO (ref) - they are wrong. sleeved suits are allowed under wetsuits - just they are not allowed in non-wetsuit swims up to standard distance. but are allowed in non-wetsuit for middle and long distance.

4.9.b.iv

"Where the use of wetsuits is forbidden, clothing covering any part of the arms below the shoulders and clothing covering any part of the legs below the knees is also forbidden. An exception may be made for competitors taking part in middle and long distance events, and are allowed to wear clothing with sleeves extending from the shoulder to the elbow."

in essence you can wear what you want UNDER a wetsuit provided that you gain no advantage by so doing - so an inflatable tri suit would not be allowed for example..... Wink sleeves, calf/thigh guards, number belts etc are allowable under current BTF rules.

I cringe when rules are applied incorrectly but sadly it still happens. even heard of one recently where a TO said that you can't do breaststroke in a pool swim - WTAF??
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ yes I read the rulebook yesterday after posting, and the bit you quote seems pretty clear! Oh well, he wasn't going to stop me using it anyway.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat buddha wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I was at a local OW Sprint last week, and was wearing my sleeved Castelli Sanremo suit. The Ref told me that technically, sleeved suits were not permitted under wetsuits any more; and at 'bigger' BTF events (Champs etc) the rule would be enforced. He agreed it was a silly rule.

Is this true? (ffs)


much as I would hate to disagree with a fellow TO (ref) - they are wrong. sleeved suits are allowed under wetsuits - just they are not allowed in non-wetsuit swims up to standard distance. but are allowed in non-wetsuit for middle and long distance.

4.9.b.iv

"Where the use of wetsuits is forbidden, clothing covering any part of the arms below the shoulders and clothing covering any part of the legs below the knees is also forbidden. An exception may be made for competitors taking part in middle and long distance events, and are allowed to wear clothing with sleeves extending from the shoulder to the elbow."

in essence you can wear what you want UNDER a wetsuit provided that you gain no advantage by so doing - so an inflatable tri suit would not be allowed for example..... Wink sleeves, calf/thigh guards, number belts etc are allowable under current BTF rules.

I cringe when rules are applied incorrectly but sadly it still happens. even heard of one recently where a TO said that you can't do breaststroke in a pool swim - WTAF??


is there any regular retraining or revalidation of officials?

my fave is still the one who said we were not allowed to run in transition Smile
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AliR




Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat buddha wrote:
even heard of one recently where a TO said that you can't do breaststroke in a pool swim - WTAF??


Was that maybe a race specific rule from the RD, rather than a BTF rule? If someone rocks up intending to do the swim breaststroke and they're not Adam Peaty, you know that they're going to be doing 3+ mins per 100 and ruin your seeding.
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AliR




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:


my fave is still the one who said we were not allowed to run in transition Smile


That used to be a rule at the Pwllheli sprint triathlon - but I think it was a council H&S department gone mad thing.
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AliR wrote:
fat buddha wrote:
even heard of one recently where a TO said that you can't do breaststroke in a pool swim - WTAF??


Was that maybe a race specific rule from the RD, rather than a BTF rule? If someone rocks up intending to do the swim breaststroke and they're not Adam Peaty, you know that they're going to be doing 3+ mins per 100 and ruin your seeding.


nope - was the TO. dog know what he was on but it must have been good
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
fat buddha wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I was at a local OW Sprint last week, and was wearing my sleeved Castelli Sanremo suit. The Ref told me that technically, sleeved suits were not permitted under wetsuits any more; and at 'bigger' BTF events (Champs etc) the rule would be enforced. He agreed it was a silly rule.

Is this true? (ffs)


much as I would hate to disagree with a fellow TO (ref) - they are wrong. sleeved suits are allowed under wetsuits - just they are not allowed in non-wetsuit swims up to standard distance. but are allowed in non-wetsuit for middle and long distance.

4.9.b.iv

"Where the use of wetsuits is forbidden, clothing covering any part of the arms below the shoulders and clothing covering any part of the legs below the knees is also forbidden. An exception may be made for competitors taking part in middle and long distance events, and are allowed to wear clothing with sleeves extending from the shoulder to the elbow."

in essence you can wear what you want UNDER a wetsuit provided that you gain no advantage by so doing - so an inflatable tri suit would not be allowed for example..... Wink sleeves, calf/thigh guards, number belts etc are allowable under current BTF rules.

I cringe when rules are applied incorrectly but sadly it still happens. even heard of one recently where a TO said that you can't do breaststroke in a pool swim - WTAF??


is there any regular retraining or revalidation of officials?

my fave is still the one who said we were not allowed to run in transition Smile


specifically no for the BTF, but at ITU levels (BTF National level and above) TOs need to revalidate every 4 years and there is a monitoring process on how TOs are doing at events.
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SwimsLikeAWalrus




Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 1435

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once heard of a shadowing TO trying to deal with people drafting in the SWIM. What made it odder was that they were a seasoned athlete.... weird. And put right...
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears that for 2017 sleeved Trisuits are allowed in non wetsuit swims but in true btf style it's confused! :-

) Trisuits:
(i) Competitors are required to wear a trisuit or costume during the swim segment;
(ii) Trisuits will not have any neoprene sections;
(iii) Suits may contain either a front or back zipper, but these must be fully zipped at all times;
(iv) Where the use of wetsuits is forbidden, clothing covering any part of the arms below the elbows and clothing
covering any part of the legs below the knees is also forbidden during the swim segment. An exception may be made for competitors taking part in middle and long distance events, and are allowed to wear clothing with sleeves extending from the shoulder to the elbow.
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awenborn




Joined: 18 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks more clear-cut than some of the previous rules, but goodness knows if it contradicts with anything else.

Going back a couple of pages (and several months!) am I right in reading that helmets that cover the ears are forbidden in a standard-distance, non-draft race?

To cut to the chase, can I use an S Works TT helmet at Windsor Olympic-distance?
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
It appears that for 2017 sleeved Trisuits are allowed in non wetsuit swims but in true btf style it's confused! :-

) Trisuits:
(i) Competitors are required to wear a trisuit or costume during the swim segment;
(ii) Trisuits will not have any neoprene sections;
(iii) Suits may contain either a front or back zipper, but these must be fully zipped at all times;
(iv) Where the use of wetsuits is forbidden, clothing covering any part of the arms below the elbows and clothing
covering any part of the legs below the knees is also forbidden during the swim segment. An exception may be made for competitors taking part in middle and long distance events, and are allowed to wear clothing with sleeves extending from the shoulder to the elbow.


the wording could be a bit better tbh, but it really shouldn't cause any confusion - standard and below, no sleeves; middle and longer - sleeves allowed

Quote:
Going back a couple of pages (and several months!) am I right in reading that helmets that cover the ears are forbidden in a standard-distance, non-draft race?

To cut to the chase, can I use an S Works TT helmet at Windsor Olympic-distance?


that was clarified last season and these are allowed. there was some debate on the matter because of the possibility of restricted vision with solid sided helmets, and impact on hearing with any ear covering, but it was decided to follow the ITU lead and not ban any helmet with ear coverings for any distance event. so you're good to go!
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat buddha wrote:
hammerer wrote:
It appears that for 2017 sleeved Trisuits are allowed in non wetsuit swims but in true btf style it's confused! :-

) Trisuits:
(i) Competitors are required to wear a trisuit or costume during the swim segment;
(ii) Trisuits will not have any neoprene sections;
(iii) Suits may contain either a front or back zipper, but these must be fully zipped at all times;
(iv) Where the use of wetsuits is forbidden, clothing covering any part of the arms below the elbows and clothing
covering any part of the legs below the knees is also forbidden during the swim segment. An exception may be made for competitors taking part in middle and long distance events, and are allowed to wear clothing with sleeves extending from the shoulder to the elbow.


the wording could be a bit better tbh, but it really shouldn't cause any confusion - standard and below, no sleeves; middle and longer - sleeves allowed


Still incoherent/contradictory. I've heard some people say that they are now okay to wear LD suits in pool events, which based on the quote above does seem logical, as it refers to 'clothing that extends below the elbows'. But then it goes on to make reference to clothing extending from shoulder to elbow, for MD/LD.

Officials writing these rules still seem to struggle with their written articulation.
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Last edited by Jorgan on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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awildt




Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 601
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
fat buddha wrote:
hammerer wrote:
It appears that for 2017 sleeved Trisuits are allowed in non wetsuit swims but in true btf style it's confused! :-

) Trisuits:
(i) Competitors are required to wear a trisuit or costume during the swim segment;
(ii) Trisuits will not have any neoprene sections;
(iii) Suits may contain either a front or back zipper, but these must be fully zipped at all times;
(iv) Where the use of wetsuits is forbidden, clothing covering any part of the arms below the elbows and clothing
covering any part of the legs below the knees is also forbidden during the swim segment. An exception may be made for competitors taking part in middle and long distance events, and are allowed to wear clothing with sleeves extending from the shoulder to the elbow.


the wording could be a bit better tbh, but it really shouldn't cause any confusion - standard and below, no sleeves; middle and longer - sleeves allowed


Still incoherent/contradictory. I've heard some people say that they are now to wear LD suits in pool events, which based on the quote above does seem logical, as it refers to 'clothing that extends below the elbows'. But then it goes on to make reference to clothing extending from shoulder to elbow, for MD/LD.

Officials writing these rules still seem to struggle with their written articulation.


Quite right. The first reference to "elbow" should be shoulders by fb's response.

They're getting their shoulders and elbows confused. Don't they know the song???
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