Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
Stryd - any early adopters out there?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Gear
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
hillwall




Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1725
Location: Norwich

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject: Stryd - any early adopters out there? Reply with quote

Does anyone have a Stryd running power meter? I wasn't really aware of them before today until something popped up in my email.

https://www.stryd.com/

http://www.bikefast.co.uk/stryd-running-power-meter

At 200 it's cheaper than power for your bike but is anyone using one. Since I am an 'all the gear' sort of person this looks like another thing to spend money on.

Just interested in thoughts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tommy060289




Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCR took an initial look at it a bit ago:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/01/stryd-first-running.html

since then Ive not really heard much on it. Dont really know what to think of it yet but would be an interesting way to measure input when gradiant is more than GAP can cope with or weather conditions change the efforts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingstonGraham




Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 7559

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really understand it - does it deal with head and tail winds or different running surfaces? If not, it doesn't seem that useful.

If it does, it sounds great - but it isn't measuring force exerted, so I don't see how it can.
_________________
I don't need an attitude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14196
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume that it is using accelerometers to measure the three angles of GRF and creating a value for each 'step'

If accurate, it will be able to determine improvements in efficiency, but i fear it will simply be used a bit like cycle pms as a measure to be beaten
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2017 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
trimechanics




Joined: 21 May 2014
Posts: 170
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the metrics that make me slightly uneasy about the stryd.

Very much like garmin metrics such as vertical oscillation. It's not that these aren't worth measuring, but they are individual, can change with circumstance and the key thing is we don't know if reducing it is better!

We know that elite runner tend to oscillate less, but if a non-elite runner tries to reduce it then they could end up 'sitting' more which will be bad.

So, back to Stryd, if the device says that power is high compared to speed then this could be misleading if the runner is more elastic.
I know when I run I generate lots of force and energy, having long legs and being 6'1
But I am very elastic, if I try and temper that I know I may reduce the power so to speak, but my efficiency almost certainly goes down.

I will be getting stryd to test in the next couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see what it offers.
_________________
www.trimechanics.co.uk
Running analysis and nutrition based in Leeds UK
https://www.facebook.com/trimechanics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hillwall




Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1725
Location: Norwich

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trimechanics wrote:

I will be getting stryd to test in the next couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see what it offers.


Please let us know how you get on. Personally, I'm interested in it for putting in appropriate effort in marathons and ultras. Like almost everyone, it is very easy to set off too fast and I'd be interested in using this for pacing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ttowel




Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 4054
Location: Swim School

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swimming efficiency, yes

Cycling efficiency, yes


I am a long way from being convinced any other way than speed, distance and time on running.

If its hilly or windy, you get a bit slower. Thats plenty enough for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
trimechanics




Joined: 21 May 2014
Posts: 170
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running efficiency is very important, however, having personally spent considerable time trying to measure proxies to it, I.e. Physiological and biomechanical metrics I am certain it's almost impossible to pinpoint!

Garmin has certain missed the mark with its VO and stance time, I can't see an accelerometer coupled with HR faring any better.

I am also not convinced by the people they have chosen to help with it.
Craig Alexander, great athlete, ?great coach - unproven
Bobby McGee, great coach, but has some seriously dubious ideas, such as the forward lean, which is utter rubbish. Plus as far as I'm aware he is a practical coach from the Brett Sutton ilk not the academic coach like Jack Daniels (who would have been my choice to assist)

And Alan lim I think, knows everything about power, for the bike, an entirely different concept.

I have been speaking to Andrew Coogan who is doing a bit of testing for them. again, physiologist, not a biomechanist.

This all seems very curious to me when there are plenty of high level biomechanists who would be able to assist.
_________________
www.trimechanics.co.uk
Running analysis and nutrition based in Leeds UK
https://www.facebook.com/trimechanics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
the5krunner




Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Loughborough

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one

generally, it does seem to generally 'work' (with caveats)

it currently doesn't take wind into account.

It is supposed to take surface conditions into account - I was unsure of this in my usage.

I'm not using mine currently.

I used it a fair bit last month and it was interesting. It was useful for me in helping deliver consistent efforts up/down various hills. obviously could use RPE.

I was not able to trust myself to just work off 'power' as I'm so used to RPE/hr/pace. it was certainly interesting to have an extra metric to play with.

one of their vids shows it being used for biomechanical/efficiency 'tuning' - I was not convinced by that. seems to me to be more useful as a pacing tool

it's only currently fully/properly compatible with ambit3s. tho garmin/polar can be used in bike mode (which excludes it from a tri racing tool at present)

so. is it 200-interesting? guess that's a personal call. It probably is of some limited benefit akin to the multiple-200s we spend on other bits and pieces of equally limited value.
_________________
To be taken with a pinch of salt: http://the5krunner.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2500
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hillwall wrote:
trimechanics wrote:

I will be getting stryd to test in the next couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see what it offers.


Please let us know how you get on. Personally, I'm interested in it for putting in appropriate effort in marathons and ultras. Like almost everyone, it is very easy to set off too fast and I'd be interested in using this for pacing.

+1

Looking forward to some feedback from you Tom.
_________________
Where the mind goes the body follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1213

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the5krunner wrote:

it currently doesn't take wind into account.

This would appear to limit the benefit somewhat, in my mind at least. I did a long run yesterday along the coast between Sandbanks and Bournemouth, and it made me realise how sheltered my London running generally is. Heading out towards Bournemouth was a fair slog, and it was only a 16kph headwind according to the Garmin Connect weather data.

Being able to "normalise" the impact on effort that wind introduces in a similar way to the power meter on my bike would be kind of appealing, at least in new areas where the impact of the terrain, gradient, and weather conditions could be having an unknown overall impact on my pace which is what I tend to target, but RPE seems to do the job for now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hillwall




Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1725
Location: Norwich

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does power need to take wind into account?

On my bike, wind doesn't matter to power - I just turn the pedals. Speed certainly does but not wind.

Or is it just because this is measuring power by proxy and as it performs calculations based on accelerometers and wind affects the acceleration?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1213

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hillwall wrote:
Does power need to take wind into account?

On my bike, wind doesn't matter to power - I just turn the pedals. Speed certainly does but not wind.

Or is it just because this is measuring power by proxy and as it performs calculations based on accelerometers and wind affects the acceleration?


Agreed for the bike. 200W is 200W when its a direct force PM. Wind will just impact the resulting speed.

But for stryd, I assume it's the equivalent to the Power Pod style PMs (http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/08/first-powerpod-power.html). There's nothing to "measure" in terms of strain/torque/etc, so it's using accelerometers to judge effort. So going uphill, it can gauge gradient and factor that into your cadence, vertical oscillation, stride length etc to determine a pseudo-power figure.

But thinking it through, if it cant account for wind (like the power pod tries to do), then if you kept all the bits the accelerometer can measure the same and ran into the wind and then downwind, would stryd know any different? Mu understanding is it wouldnt. Yet the effort required into the wind would far exceed that going downwind. That would be my reservation about it. Maybe I'm missing something?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingstonGraham




Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 7559

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
hillwall wrote:
Does power need to take wind into account?

On my bike, wind doesn't matter to power - I just turn the pedals. Speed certainly does but not wind.

Or is it just because this is measuring power by proxy and as it performs calculations based on accelerometers and wind affects the acceleration?


Agreed for the bike. 200W is 200W when its a direct force PM. Wind will just impact the resulting speed.

But for stryd, I assume it's the equivalent to the Power Pod style PMs (http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/08/first-powerpod-power.html). There's nothing to "measure" in terms of strain/torque/etc, so it's using accelerometers to judge effort. So going uphill, it can gauge gradient and factor that into your cadence, vertical oscillation, stride length etc to determine a pseudo-power figure.

But thinking it through, if it cant account for wind (like the power pod tries to do), then if you kept all the bits the accelerometer can measure the same and ran into the wind and then downwind, would stryd know any different? Mu understanding is it wouldnt. Yet the effort required into the wind would far exceed that going downwind. That would be my reservation about it. Maybe I'm missing something?


Unless there is something measurably different about the way your body moves that can be taken into account for wind (and running through mud for that matter), any estimation can't be right. There might be something that can be measured though. I don't know.
_________________
I don't need an attitude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1213

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingstonGraham wrote:
stenard wrote:
hillwall wrote:
Does power need to take wind into account?

On my bike, wind doesn't matter to power - I just turn the pedals. Speed certainly does but not wind.

Or is it just because this is measuring power by proxy and as it performs calculations based on accelerometers and wind affects the acceleration?


Agreed for the bike. 200W is 200W when its a direct force PM. Wind will just impact the resulting speed.

But for stryd, I assume it's the equivalent to the Power Pod style PMs (http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/08/first-powerpod-power.html). There's nothing to "measure" in terms of strain/torque/etc, so it's using accelerometers to judge effort. So going uphill, it can gauge gradient and factor that into your cadence, vertical oscillation, stride length etc to determine a pseudo-power figure.

But thinking it through, if it cant account for wind (like the power pod tries to do), then if you kept all the bits the accelerometer can measure the same and ran into the wind and then downwind, would stryd know any different? Mu understanding is it wouldnt. Yet the effort required into the wind would far exceed that going downwind. That would be my reservation about it. Maybe I'm missing something?


Unless there is something measurably different about the way your body moves that can be taken into account for wind (and running through mud for that matter), any estimation can't be right. There might be something that can be measured though. I don't know.


I guess the best place to test it would be a windy session at a track, with a headwind down one straight and a tailwind down the other, as everything else is consistent. If you could run consistent splits and the reported power increased and fell in line with the wind direction, then maybe they are doing something rather clever.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> Gear All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.