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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7998
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
jibberjim wrote:

My DP .


You need to get off Mums Net. I'm disappointed in myself that I even guessed what you meant.


What term should I use?
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7998
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redjeep! wrote:
To be honest, I don't know. I'd also say that my version of 'digging deep' is wayyyy lower than yours.


Yeah, I suspect it may well be an interpretation of terms here, just pushing on enough to make it hard is probably "digging deep", so yeah, that's probably a good workout.
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TSH




Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 921
Location: Welsh Riviera

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've managed to couple up a flat screen TV (not a smart one) with a 5 to 7 year old desktop computer (obvs connected wirelessly to the internet).

I've got a Garmin 520 and a Fenix 3 connected by Ant+ to Garmin's (separate) speed and cadence sensors.

I also prefer to use Elite parabolic rollers in the winter rather than a turbo.

If I were to buy an USB Ant+ stick for say a tenner to stick in a port, could I download Zwift etc on to the PC and ride 'real time' utilising speed, hr and cadence etc on my rollers, or do I have to buy a specific smart turbo trainer and banish my rollers to the garage forever more?
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 137
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a reply from Bkool re manual routes but it didn't make a great deal of sense.

It started by apologising and saying that the manual route creator was no longer part of the new simulator.

It then went on to say that in the short term you could create manual routes by time which contradicts the first statement. I think maybe something got lost in translation and they're going to add back a limited manual option soon.

I've been quite happy with the free version up until now but that was largely due to creating manual routes so when my current premium trial period runs out I might have to reconsider and sign up for one of the other systems. From the feedback on here Trainerroad is looking favourite at the moment.
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1122
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSH wrote:
I've managed to couple up a flat screen TV (not a smart one) with a 5 to 7 year old desktop computer (obvs connected wirelessly to the internet).

I've got a Garmin 520 and a Fenix 3 connected by Ant+ to Garmin's (separate) speed and cadence sensors.

I also prefer to use Elite parabolic rollers in the winter rather than a turbo.

If I were to buy an USB Ant+ stick for say a tenner to stick in a port, could I download Zwift etc on to the PC and ride 'real time' utilising speed, hr and cadence etc on my rollers, or do I have to buy a specific smart turbo trainer and banish my rollers to the garage forever more?


I don't have any experience with Zwift etc, but I'm pretty sure without power data you won't be able to ride real time.
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16140
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
TSH wrote:
I've managed to couple up a flat screen TV (not a smart one) with a 5 to 7 year old desktop computer (obvs connected wirelessly to the internet).

I've got a Garmin 520 and a Fenix 3 connected by Ant+ to Garmin's (separate) speed and cadence sensors.

I also prefer to use Elite parabolic rollers in the winter rather than a turbo.

If I were to buy an USB Ant+ stick for say a tenner to stick in a port, could I download Zwift etc on to the PC and ride 'real time' utilising speed, hr and cadence etc on my rollers, or do I have to buy a specific smart turbo trainer and banish my rollers to the garage forever more?


I don't have any experience with Zwift etc, but I'm pretty sure without power data you won't be able to ride real time.


virtual power!

You need an Ant + speed sensor, cadence useful and an ant+ stick on the pc. bluetooth works as well if you can get all bluetooth rather than ant+. then let them know what trainer you use and you get a power figure, although not entirely accurate, its reproducible. Then again my KK road was only about 10watts out from my P1's. If you race on Zwift with zPower some get a bit funny about it, especially if you are holding 500watts for an hr.
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TSH




Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 921
Location: Welsh Riviera

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
TriSam wrote:
TSH wrote:
I've managed to couple up a flat screen TV (not a smart one) with a 5 to 7 year old desktop computer (obvs connected wirelessly to the internet).

I've got a Garmin 520 and a Fenix 3 connected by Ant+ to Garmin's (separate) speed and cadence sensors.

I also prefer to use Elite parabolic rollers in the winter rather than a turbo.

If I were to buy an USB Ant+ stick for say a tenner to stick in a port, could I download Zwift etc on to the PC and ride 'real time' utilising speed, hr and cadence etc on my rollers, or do I have to buy a specific smart turbo trainer and banish my rollers to the garage forever more?


I don't have any experience with Zwift etc, but I'm pretty sure without power data you won't be able to ride real time.


virtual power!

You need an Ant + speed sensor, cadence useful and an ant+ stick on the pc. bluetooth works as well if you can get all bluetooth rather than ant+. then let them know what trainer you use and you get a power figure, although not entirely accurate, its reproducible. Then again my KK road was only about 10watts out from my P1's. If you race on Zwift with zPower some get a bit funny about it, especially if you are holding 500watts for an hr.


Thanks, as above, I have Ant+ speed, cadence & HR sensors, but wanted to train on 'dumb' Elite parabolic rollers. My speed sensor also calculates distance. If I bought an Ant+ dongle, would Zwift etc use the output from the sensors and enable me to 'participate in a virtual experience' and display figures on the screen?.........
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 137
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very frustrating evening in the shed with the new "upgraded" Bkool simulator.

1. Lost connection to server after 10mins and instead of continuing off-line until reconnection (like the old simulator did) just kicked me out without any record of the sessions at all.
2. FTP test but 3 blank dials on display with no metrics visible and no indication of warm-up/warm-down other than feeling resistance change. (Also didn't save session so no result or record of it)

I had previously been happy to carry on with Bkool but this, combined with removal of the manual session option, has put me off so am looking at alternatives again.

Downloaded Zwift but couldn't run it on my old "shed laptop" leaving Trainer Road as the other option I was aware of, but didn't have time to try that.

Did a bit of Googling later on and noticed that Golden Cheetah has a training app for smart trainers. I've seen GC referred to on here but seemed a bit technical and over my head CDa, TSS, IF etc. Has anyone used the trainer sessions on GC or any advice re the application in general.

Thanks
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16140
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSH wrote:
hammerer wrote:
TriSam wrote:
TSH wrote:
I've managed to couple up a flat screen TV (not a smart one) with a 5 to 7 year old desktop computer (obvs connected wirelessly to the internet).

I've got a Garmin 520 and a Fenix 3 connected by Ant+ to Garmin's (separate) speed and cadence sensors.

I also prefer to use Elite parabolic rollers in the winter rather than a turbo.

If I were to buy an USB Ant+ stick for say a tenner to stick in a port, could I download Zwift etc on to the PC and ride 'real time' utilising speed, hr and cadence etc on my rollers, or do I have to buy a specific smart turbo trainer and banish my rollers to the garage forever more?


I don't have any experience with Zwift etc, but I'm pretty sure without power data you won't be able to ride real time.


virtual power!

You need an Ant + speed sensor, cadence useful and an ant+ stick on the pc. bluetooth works as well if you can get all bluetooth rather than ant+. then let them know what trainer you use and you get a power figure, although not entirely accurate, its reproducible. Then again my KK road was only about 10watts out from my P1's. If you race on Zwift with zPower some get a bit funny about it, especially if you are holding 500watts for an hr.


Thanks, as above, I have Ant+ speed, cadence & HR sensors, but wanted to train on 'dumb' Elite parabolic rollers. My speed sensor also calculates distance. If I bought an Ant+ dongle, would Zwift etc use the output from the sensors and enable me to 'participate in a virtual experience' and display figures on the screen?.........


yep, ZWIFT distance / speed is worked out by using a power figure as you have hills, it uses your weight etc. The actual speed from the speed sensor is measured against the power curve of your trainer to give a virtual power. Most rollers arent supported by ZWIFT though but select one that's close and as long as your power figure isnt something ridiculous go with it. As long as its reproducible. Your "garmin speed" will never match "zwift speed" as going up a 7% incline isnt the same as being on a flat trainer. You can simulate the hills if you want by changing gear anyway!

I ride ZWIFT on rollers and dumb trainer, although I have a PM.
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TransitionTed




Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 21430
Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when my new bike turns up from WyndyMilla, I'm going to slap it on a dumb trainer with power and stick with my Sufferefest app.
I like Sufferfest because the sound tracks are kick ass, and the vids make me laugh through the hurt

Plus their support if things aren't right is first rate.
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Redjeep!




Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaRok2300 wrote:
Very frustrating evening in the shed with the new "upgraded" Bkool simulator.

1. Lost connection to server after 10mins and instead of continuing off-line until reconnection (like the old simulator did) just kicked me out without any record of the sessions at all.
2. FTP test but 3 blank dials on display with no metrics visible and no indication of warm-up/warm-down other than feeling resistance change. (Also didn't save session so no result or record of it)

I had previously been happy to carry on with Bkool but this, combined with removal of the manual session option, has put me off so am looking at alternatives again.

Downloaded Zwift but couldn't run it on my old "shed laptop" leaving Trainer Road as the other option I was aware of, but didn't have time to try that.

Did a bit of Googling later on and noticed that Golden Cheetah has a training app for smart trainers. I've seen GC referred to on here but seemed a bit technical and over my head CDa, TSS, IF etc. Has anyone used the trainer sessions on GC or any advice re the application in general.

Thanks


Check out DC Rainmakers comparison which helpfully came out this week.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/11/trainer-apps-guide.html
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 137
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a look at a couple of You Tube vids since my last post and both Sufferfest & GC look really good.

I'm leaning towards GC at the moment as you can manually create workouts by power (outright or %FTP I think) or gradient, download pre-made ones from a database and it's all offline so any internet glitches (it's the 3rd world for broadband round by me) aren't a problem.

You can also run a YouTube video on the same screen so can watch any old bike race/tri etc while doing it.

I'll try downloading it at the weekend and see how I get on. (My steam powered laptop permitting!)
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Redjeep!




Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaRok2300 wrote:
I've had a look at a couple of You Tube vids since my last post and both Sufferfest & GC look really good.

I'm leaning towards GC at the moment as you can manually create workouts by power (outright or %FTP I think) or gradient, download pre-made ones from a database and it's all offline so any internet glitches (it's the 3rd world for broadband round by me) aren't a problem.

You can also run a YouTube video on the same screen so can watch any old bike race/tri etc while doing it.

I'll try downloading it at the weekend and see how I get on. (My steam powered laptop permitting!)


Please let me know what you decide on. I have the same problem with broadband. On a good day I may get 2 Mbs (currently 1.06 Mbs) and consistently have drop out's with BK, but even with the new simulator it kept going.

I'd say the ideal situation for me would be having the performance metrics visible and having multiplayer mode, but superimposed over something else like Youtube or a streaming video.
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 137
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a quick play with Golden Cheetah this morning and so far so good.
Set up 3 short training sessions using, outright power, %FTP and gradient to check everything was communicating OK.
Could feel the resistance changing to match the power or gradient and all the metrics and graphs on screen seemed to be working. (Even if I didn't know what half of them meant)
The video viewer is only for saved videos so no good for YouTube but I resized the screen and had a separate window instead. You can adjust the size of all the metrics to get the layout just right.
Haven't even scratched the surface of all the analytical stuff but so far very impressed.
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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 856

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing on Zwift at the moment, to see if it will help winter training (2 month free trial).

Doing Z2 rides are good, and I've also enjoyed their interval sessions and built/ridden custom interval sessions. Definitely helped me stay on it, and time passed quickly.

Not quite the same for the Group rides yet. Entered one last night, billed as a steady tempo 2.5-3.0 w/kg. It went off like a rocket, and I was shot out the back after 20 minutes doing 3.5+ w/kg.

Not tried any races yet, but I'm told the willy waving is even worse for these....
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