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What is a good time for IM wales ride
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: What is a good time for IM wales ride Reply with quote

I have entered IM Tenby next September. I was looking at the ride times in Tenby compared with ride times in Barcelona

In Barcelona, 90% of riders finished in a time quicker than top 10% of riders in Tenby. The average time difference was 1h 45m. Even for the top 5% the time difference was over 1 hour

Does anyone have any stats which show how much power you need to do a 5h30m in Tenby? I have the first part of the Tenby IM course on the TACX app, and to do 20.6mph average my power was 245W, which feels high, but maybe it is realistic
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hopper-tri




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't compare Wales to Barcelona...

No good asking on here for power required, as that changes with the weight of each rider...
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PCP




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went into Wales in pretty bad shape and rode 6:59:xx @ 203w but was 88kg so only 2.3w/kg.

I'd expect for a 5:30 you'd need to be in the 3.2w/kg and above but there are probably people on here who have done a 5:30 here who can be more accurate.
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SidSnot




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: What is a good time for IM wales ride Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
I have the first part of the Tenby IM course on the TACX app, and to do 20.6mph average my power was 245W,


Its the second part that'll get ya...
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PCP




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: What is a good time for IM wales ride Reply with quote

SidSnot wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
I have the first part of the Tenby IM course on the TACX app, and to do 20.6mph average my power was 245W,


Its the second part that'll get ya...


Yep, I missed that part of the post. The first loop is a breeze, then you do the 2nd loop twice. I aveaged 18.5mph for the first 40 miles then 14.8mph for the rest. And I paced it pretty well too.

There is approx 40ft per mile for the first 40 miles in the first loop and 70ft per mile over the 70 miles of the 2 loops.
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did 6:11 in Tenby in 2015, and 4:56 in Barcelona 2016.

Both were remarkably similar power outputs (196-198w - about 2.8w/kg).

Do not make the foolish assumption that the Barca bike leg is easy - it is quick obviously and you are out there an hour less but there is no respite. No nice downhills to softpedal, no uphills where you can at least sit up out of aero position and get some relief. That gets to you, eventually.

Also we had a tailwind out and headwind back - the headwind was pretty much constant for 1hr 15mins, again no respite and no cover. Very little support out on the course either, unlike Tenby (other than the turn back at Callela after lap 1).

Wales is a very different ride; being aero less important - descending skills, metering your effort out on climbs to make steady progress but not burn out are as important, and for a lot of guys it's a tough call to go Road or TT bike. It's a very interesting and scenic ride, keeps you engaged, lots of pockets of support.

Really worth getting down there for a recce to test set ups and get a feel for it, and the sort of power you wll need for a 5:30. 5:30 is VERY competitive at Tenby so assuming you are slot chasing?
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having never done an IM before, and only taken up Triathlons 15 months ago, it would be presumptuous / naive to think that I could qualify at my first attempt. However, I would like to get an AG qualifier one day, will probably never happen, but nice to have a goal.


A 5:30 would put me close to the top of my AG (45-49) and is probably close to the time I would need to do to qualify, however, I am at least 10 minutes off on the swim and probably 30 off the run. Cycling is my strong discipline, I was thinking of trying a strong ride, even if it compromises my run

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice!

My 6:11 ride was part of an 11:18, which got me 12th in AG M45-49 in 2015. (1:12/6:11/3:40). The last slot went at 10:58 I believe, so a 5:50 ride would have got me on terms for the last Kona slot.

Only one M45-49 went sub 5:40. So 5:30 would be immensely competitive, and 10:55 overall is about the ball park to be in the mix.

Very varied conditions in Wales, I have seen brutal swim conditions (2014) and wet/wind can hit everyone's bike splits. The run is basically up and down a hill as well. This race finds any weaknesses you have.

It's a huge ask on your first IM, but good luck (I'm M50-54 next year so out of 45-49 which is a tough AG).
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JeffB




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRO Saracen wrote:
I did 6:11 in Tenby in 2015, and 4:56 in Barcelona 2016.

Both were remarkably similar power outputs (196-198w - about 2.8w/kg).

Do not make the foolish assumption that the Barca bike leg is easy - it is quick obviously and you are out there an hour less but there is no respite. No nice downhills to softpedal, no uphills where you can at least sit up out of aero position and get some relief. That gets to you, eventually.

Also we had a tailwind out and headwind back - the headwind was pretty much constant for 1hr 15mins, again no respite and no cover. Very little support out on the course either, unlike Tenby (other than the turn back at Callela after lap 1).

Wales is a very different ride; being aero less important - descending skills, metering your effort out on climbs to make steady progress but not burn out are as important, and for a lot of guys it's a tough call to go Road or TT bike. It's a very interesting and scenic ride, keeps you engaged, lots of pockets of support.

Really worth getting down there for a recce to test set ups and get a feel for it, and the sort of power you wll need for a 5:30. 5:30 is VERY competitive at Tenby so assuming you are slot chasing?


I'm pretty similar to this, did Wales but it was a few years ago in ~6:10 but that was a grim day and included a slight crash, I'm also rubbish on the descents even more so if they are wet and twisty as they were, but my power was in the same ball-park.

Did Barca this year in 4:50 (5 min pen included Sad) oh, and it was about 2 miles short so that is about 6 mins.

As TRO says it is completely different, wales has very few flat bits, you were usually going up or down. Whereas Barca is just a TT dream course, I'd done a fair bit of training on my TT bike and just got used to being in that position churning out between 200-230W.

It won't be long about people mentioning about the drafting in Spain, but TBF I saw plenty of it in Wales for during the first 30 mile out and back bit, and that was a smaller field.

Jeff
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JeffB




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.


5:40 will be a good ride at Wales, the run isn't flat either so you'll need to be used to running up and down steady climbs, but that does have the benefit of breaking up the run.

I was in M40 when I did a few years back and managed 10:56 and only managed about 25th. The swim was fast (maybe slightly short), I did 60:20 whereas i'd normally expect about 65-68. Run was also short by about 1 mile and I did 3:31 I think, which would put me around 3:39 if it was correct, that is about what I've done the runs at my other IM's in when the run has gone well (and been accurate).

Good luck, I might be there as well and in the M45 cat, but as mentioned, unless it is warm and sunny it isn't a course for me really. (just a close legacy counter!)

Jeff
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stenard




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.

I think this was said on the sub 11hr thread, but now I see you're doing Wales its even more true ... a 3:50 marathon, when you've never actually done one and anticipate you could do 3:25 standalone, does seem optimistic.

I've not done Wales, but have watched the highlights shows on Eurosport, and the run had me wincing. It looks brutal. As a 3.04 marathoner, I wouldnt be surprised to come out of a race like that with the IM run starting with a 4. I am seriously considering Tenby too, as a large number of my club are targeting it this year so I've been doing a bit of research into the race/course.

Worth signing up to Long Course Weekend I would suggest. I know most of the people from my club are. Unfortunately I have 2 weddings that weekend that clash, so am already double booked Mad
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Tin Pot




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Having never done an IM before, and only taken up Triathlons 15 months ago, it would be presumptuous / naive to think that I could qualify at my first attempt. However, I would like to get an AG qualifier one day, will probably never happen, but nice to have a goal.


A 5:30 would put me close to the top of my AG (45-49) and is probably close to the time I would need to do to qualify, however, I am at least 10 minutes off on the swim and probably 30 off the run. Cycling is my strong discipline, I was thinking of trying a strong ride, even if it compromises my run

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.


My advice would not be to set out with a strong bike leg in mind.

Or any predicted run time.

Set targets in training, but when you get closer you'll have a better idea of what you're capable of - and even then, it can fall apart as it did for me.
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TSH




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenby is the place to shatter dreams! If you do LCW keep in mind that the marathon is completely different. I hit the bike as much as I dare this year (after 3 practice rides and 2 previous IM attempts there) and was pleased with 6.10.

Then struggled with a 4.10 marathon - 12 weeks later I run a 3.09 mara in Lanza. Hope those numbers paint a picture for you. I'm not saying for a moment that you can't do it - I just think some people underestimate it.

You also have to take into account that the road surfaces give a lot of feedback on the bike which does rob energy from you.
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Last edited by TSH on Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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snowie




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Having never done an IM before, and only taken up Triathlons 15 months ago, it would be presumptuous / naive to think that I could qualify at my first attempt. However, I would like to get an AG qualifier one day, will probably never happen, but nice to have a goal.


A 5:30 would put me close to the top of my AG (45-49) and is probably close to the time I would need to do to qualify, however, I am at least 10 minutes off on the swim and probably 30 off the run. Cycling is my strong discipline, I was thinking of trying a strong ride, even if it compromises my run

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.


What are your stand alone times?
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largeade




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 2014 I did Wales for the second time...

At 84kg, with a 3.3w/kg FTP I did an on target 2.3w/kg NP and still blew the run.

What you put out on the hills eats you. Looking back, peak watts hit an enforced 9w/kg.

You need some downhill balls too, I hit 74kph on one descent.
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