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What is a good time for IM wales ride
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 235
Location: salisbury

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snowie wrote:


What are your stand alone times?


At the moment: Swim 1h13, Ride 5h20, run 3h30 (only done one Marathon on a tough course, guy I was running with runs 3h15)

7 months of hard training ahead
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sbezza




Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
I went into Wales in pretty bad shape and rode 6:59:xx @ 203w but was 88kg so only 2.3w/kg.

I'd expect for a 5:30 you'd need to be in the 3.2w/kg and above but there are probably people on here who have done a 5:30 here who can be more accurate.


I did 5:35 off 2.9w/kg, (that was with holding back on the bike) the hills do play a part, but there is some much of the course where aero is still king, don't just focus on w/kg. If you are aero as a brick you will need a lot more. The hills aren't that bad in Wales to be honest. Having good bike handling will save you a lot of time, being able to put out good power for short periods will also help on the few steep sections and then being able to recover from them.

I was second fastest in the 45-49 AG (fastest was 5:34), a 5:30 time as TRO Saracen said is a very competitive time for Wales and unless you are a previously good cyclist might actually destroy your run. As someone else don't just aim for a fast bike, aim for an overall time you think you can do and then be realistic with each discipline as to what you can achieve.

As someone else mentioned it is completely different to a steady state Barcelona type race, you need to be able to do some big power efforts and then recover from them.

The run at Tenby if you have biked too hard will destroy you, it is a tough run course IMO and tougher than the bike. That likely shows my history with bike racing but as a word of warning, do not try and overbike your bike leg to achieve a goal time.
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fenix




Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.


I think its a bit trickier than you think. If you go even a bit too fast on the bike you'll be walking the run. If only IM was as simple as choosing the times to qualify. Good luck with it....


Where have you done your 5.20 IM time ? Tenby is v hilly as everyone has said.
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sbezza




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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You also said cycling was your strong discipline, have you done any long distance time trials, if so what sort of time are you doing for these.

As an example I have done 100m TT's in 3:40-3:50 and yet to do IM Wales in 5:30 would have compromised my run potentially. 5:30 was the fastest I hoped to be on the bike, if 5:30 is a time you aim for make sure you really are a strong cyclist.

I put out a normalised power of 218 at Wales this year and me being a smallish rider (5'10" and 75kgs) meant that even 5:35 did hit my run a little, but it was a gamble that paid off. I also had a slight run injury so knew I was never going to run at my best.

If you really have never done an IM, then don't set targets based on previous results, go in with an open mindset.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not done any 100 mile TT, in fact recently only done a local TT a couple of times: it is a pretty hilly, technical 13 miles in around 30m30s

My fastest (and only) 100 mile effort was 4h35m around the New Forest

Over the past 15 months, I have lost 20KG, and now weigh 74kg. At the same time my FTP has gone from 240 to 285 (I did one FTP at 305, but can't replicate it). I am not where I want to be yet, but would like to be at a level of fitness where I can maintain 220w for 4 hours without killing myself.

Over the winter I am not doing any really long rides, but focusing more on 250-260W 1.5 hour sessions on the Turbo in addition to some 18mph 60k-80k club rides.

I am good at hills, I enjoy hills, even at the end of a long ride try to put in a sprint on the hills. However, I am not so good on the descents. The same goes for running, I appear to be better on hilly courses than flat ones (relative to others).

I suspect that my first attempt at Wales will be closer to 11h20m, but I can always dream sub 11h on an A+ day, off the back of 7 months really good training

A year ago I couldn't imagine that I would run a marathon in 3:30, I didn't even break a 25min 5k until 8 months ago, yet I can now run a marathon at that pace now
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Not done any 100 mile TT, in fact recently only done a local TT a couple of times: it is a pretty hilly, technical 13 miles in around 30m30s

My fastest (and only) 100 mile effort was 4h35m around the New Forest

Over the past 15 months, I have lost 20KG, and now weigh 74kg. At the same time my FTP has gone from 240 to 285 (I did one FTP at 305, but can't replicate it). I am not where I want to be yet, but would like to be at a level of fitness where I can maintain 220w for 4 hours without killing myself.


With an FTP 10-15% higher than yours at the same weight, SBezza would take quite a lot of time out of me on a rolling 100, he's very aero and gets very good speeds for his time.

You shouldn't be wanting to put in sprints on the hills btw, you should just be going up easily, every moment over threshold hurts, 'cos you don't get to dribble out the glycogen, you're spending it in chunks.
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admire your enthusiasm, but have you done an IM before?

( it isn't clear whether you've done Barcelona or you were just perusing the results.)

If you haven't it will be a bit of a shock to the system, however well you have prepared, and your goal should be to finish it at a consistent pace (however slow or fast that is.) I can't state that strongly enough.

Wales is tough as IM courses go. You definitely don't want to be sprinting up the hills and very good descending skills will help a lot.

FYI I rode about 5.51 this year, at 210W NP (200W AP) and 68/69kg I guess (I don't weigh myself very often). That gave me legs to have a good run, which was 3.57 - the run is also very hilly. It was my 6th race and probably my most complete.
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SidSnot




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbezza wrote:

If you really have never done an IM, then don't set targets based on previous results, go in with an open mindset.


Good advice there
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Adamfrommk




Joined: 11 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Not done any 100 mile TT, in fact recently only done a local TT a couple of times: it is a pretty hilly, technical 13 miles in around 30m30s

My fastest (and only) 100 mile effort was 4h35m around the New Forest

Over the past 15 months, I have lost 20KG, and now weigh 74kg. At the same time my FTP has gone from 240 to 285 (I did one FTP at 305, but can't replicate it). I am not where I want to be yet, but would like to be at a level of fitness where I can maintain 220w for 4 hours without killing myself.

Over the winter I am not doing any really long rides, but focusing more on 250-260W 1.5 hour sessions on the Turbo in addition to some 18mph 60k-80k club rides.

I am good at hills, I enjoy hills, even at the end of a long ride try to put in a sprint on the hills. However, I am not so good on the descents. The same goes for running, I appear to be better on hilly courses than flat ones (relative to others).

I suspect that my first attempt at Wales will be closer to 11h20m, but I can always dream sub 11h on an A+ day, off the back of 7 months really good training

A year ago I couldn't imagine that I would run a marathon in 3:30, I didn't even break a 25min 5k until 8 months ago, yet I can now run a marathon at that pace now


A (very!!) rough calculation from course simulator (BBS) says at 74kg you'd need a NP of 240w for 5:30 bike split.

So you'd want your FTP to be 320w for this to be a realistic ride that won't blow your run.

Looking at your stats a 5:45-5:55 probably a good realistic goal Smile
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Doca




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What calculation gives you an ideal IM race NP based on your FTP power?
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
What calculation gives you an ideal IM race NP based on your FTP power?


There isn't one... there's too many factors, and it's certainly not just your FTP, but how long it will take you etc. So modelling the overall energy requirements for the entire event will help inform (if you're going to be out there for another 5 hours on the run it will differ to another 3 hours) but even that just informs, there's no single right answer. Also obviously your ideal number is unlikely to be one to go for, you should bias towards slightly under - since if it turns out you're slightly worse on the day, you lose a lot more time on the run than was saved on that bike.
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WhittleFit




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbezza wrote:

The run at Tenby if you have biked too hard will destroy you......

What he said. Not many run sub-4 at Tenby......pace that bike carefully!
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moonmonkey02




Joined: 30 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Having never done an IM before, and only taken up Triathlons 15 months ago, it would be presumptuous / naive to think that I could qualify at my first attempt. However, I would like to get an AG qualifier one day, will probably never happen, but nice to have a goal.


A 5:30 would put me close to the top of my AG (45-49) and is probably close to the time I would need to do to qualify, however, I am at least 10 minutes off on the swim and probably 30 off the run. Cycling is my strong discipline, I was thinking of trying a strong ride, even if it compromises my run

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.


reminds me a bit of this:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Sub_10_Ironman_Training..._Questions_P5080514/

good luck with your training!
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ed_m




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moonmonkey02 wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
Having never done an IM before, and only taken up Triathlons 15 months ago, it would be presumptuous / naive to think that I could qualify at my first attempt. However, I would like to get an AG qualifier one day, will probably never happen, but nice to have a goal.


A 5:30 would put me close to the top of my AG (45-49) and is probably close to the time I would need to do to qualify, however, I am at least 10 minutes off on the swim and probably 30 off the run. Cycling is my strong discipline, I was thinking of trying a strong ride, even if it compromises my run

I will probably go for a 1:10 swim, 5:40 ride, 3:50 run and 00:15 transition for an 10:55 target this year. This would be a top 20 AG place and give me something to build on.


reminds me a bit of this:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Sub_10_Ironman_Training..._Questions_P5080514/

good luck with your training!


this should fill my last day at work nicely... thanks
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sbezza




Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adamfrommk wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
Not done any 100 mile TT, in fact recently only done a local TT a couple of times: it is a pretty hilly, technical 13 miles in around 30m30s

My fastest (and only) 100 mile effort was 4h35m around the New Forest

Over the past 15 months, I have lost 20KG, and now weigh 74kg. At the same time my FTP has gone from 240 to 285 (I did one FTP at 305, but can't replicate it). I am not where I want to be yet, but would like to be at a level of fitness where I can maintain 220w for 4 hours without killing myself.

Over the winter I am not doing any really long rides, but focusing more on 250-260W 1.5 hour sessions on the Turbo in addition to some 18mph 60k-80k club rides.

I am good at hills, I enjoy hills, even at the end of a long ride try to put in a sprint on the hills. However, I am not so good on the descents. The same goes for running, I appear to be better on hilly courses than flat ones (relative to others).

I suspect that my first attempt at Wales will be closer to 11h20m, but I can always dream sub 11h on an A+ day, off the back of 7 months really good training

A year ago I couldn't imagine that I would run a marathon in 3:30, I didn't even break a 25min 5k until 8 months ago, yet I can now run a marathon at that pace now


A (very!!) rough calculation from course simulator (BBS) says at 74kg you'd need a NP of 240w for 5:30 bike split.

So you'd want your FTP to be 320w for this to be a realistic ride that won't blow your run.

Looking at your stats a 5:45-5:55 probably a good realistic goal Smile


You could go 5:30 for less power at that weight depending on how aero you are, and yes aero still counts a lot for Wales. But I agree going for that target is not realistic for most and a sub 6 hour ride is a good ride in Wales IMO.
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