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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1443
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Time Trials Reply with quote

I didn't do any last year but in 2015 I did a 1:03:31 25TT off 254w & 83kg then a 30TT in 1:16:xx a few weeks later so pretty much exactly the same speed.

This year I've entered a 25 on the same course as above then a 50 & 100 on a course that is a slight variation of the 25 course.

My FTP was 263w in late Nov, I will test again soon expecting to be 270-275w and I'm desperate to go under 60mins for the 25 on April 1st (hopefully my power will be closer to 290w by then), by then my weight will be around 80-82kg.

Questions:

1. Is <60 is possible on a fairly flat course with my power/weight?
2. Given a very similar course/conditions, how much speed drop off will there be from a 25 to a 50 to a 100?

My ultimate goal is to bike <6 hrs at IMUK
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Cat5 in the Hat




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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Location: Berks

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are you measuring FTP - 20 or 60 minute test?

My power doesn't scale well to hour efforts, and a 20min FTP predicts 258W ish.

I'd imagine at that weight and 290W you should break the hour. I was ~75kg last year and did 247W AP for 1:00:02. Of course it also depends on how aero you are.

I broke the hour later on in the season.

Whatever you can do to limit your mass will help.
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the sub 60 is definitely possible if you can get to ~285W, it really depends on how aero you are rather than weight assuming it is fairly flat, don't know what kit you use but you can save a few watts here and there with good tyres, aero calf guards and shoe covers etc.

I weigh about 75kg and have done a few 58's off about 280-290w but I don't think I'm particularly aero although have improved last year. They weren't on really fast days but were decent courses.

Hard to say about your speed drop off, mine is pretty linear until I get to 100 miles, but I think that is a mental thing TBH that I struggle to hammer myself for that long and my 100's tend to be around IM pace. my PB's are roughly,

10 - 21:55 (Levens on a wet ok'ish day)
25 - 58:15 (local dc, again ok day)
50 - 1:58:20 (as above)
100 - 4:13 (but this was on the infamous short 100 course where someone broke the comp record with a 30mph ave then got it taken off him, it was only about 300M short so less than a minute extra and I've also done a 4:15 I think. Both on fast DC's on a good days for about 220W)

IMUK is a bit more difficult though, it definitely favours a lighter rider as there is a lot of climbing, but if you are good at descending you can make a bit of time up there. I did 5:52 in 2014 but I didn't have the best day, I switched off on the 2nd lap of the bike as I was quite isolated, don't think I ate enough either and paid for it on the run.

So although sub 6 on the bike is a good target that you could probably do it is more about the damage you are doing for the run, 26 miles is a long way if you've smashed the bike too hard. I'd try riding some sporting course TT's if you have any, or do a lumpy sportive on your road bike and see how you get on with that.

Jeff
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
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Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I managed a 57:10 last year on a reasonable course, not a particularly fast one, off AP 289 and NP 290. I'm using non-round chainrings, which artificially inflate power by between 5-10 Watts, so take from that what you will.

Also have done a 21:10 10 miler, from AP 309.

I'm only 63kg, but wasn't amazingly aero last year. Have a new position this year, as well as a DIY shoe solution for both TT's and Tri's that should save me some watts. Here's hoping.

Often people find their 10 and 25 TT average speeds aren't too far from each other, because getting up to speed at the start and after roundabouts/turns take up a larger portion of the race in a 10.

With 280W you should find it relatively easy to break the hour I'd imagine, as if I remember correctly you have a decent setup and a good position.
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Nobbie




Joined: 24 Jul 2006
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Location: Wilmslow

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

four minutes is a lot to drop, but if you can get an extra 40w over your last attempt then you stand a good chance. May see you on the day, assuming it's the Withington Wheelers 25 on the J2/9. Not really a very fast course, but good training 🙂
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Cat5 in the Hat




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just make sure you are 3cm compliant too.
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is definitely possible. My suggestion would be to use your IMUK training to get you a fast 25mtt rather than doing an early season 25 on the way to IMUK. You ll have a nice big aerobic base to work from and then you can do 4-5 weeks of tt specific work for a mid-late August 25 or two and you'll smash it.
In 2015 I did a 1:02:30 and decided to focus specifically on the 25 next season to break 60. In late June I rode a 56 followed by along 55 the week after and my watts/kg was 3.3. But like I said, that was 30 weeks of specific TR plans. I had a really good weekend conditions wise: low air pressure, low wind, high traffic volume for a push.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FTP done on 20 min test.
Set up and position are pretty good.
Yes it is J2/9 Nobbie, let me know if you are doing it, it'd be nice to have a cup of tea after Smile
I may do it again later in the year, that's a good shout.
I know the IMUK course pretty well, the climbs and descents. I went 6:24 there in 2013. This was after only getting a bike in Sept '12 and missing Jan-April after getting run over. I know the course is slower now though.

What is 3cm compliant?
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3cm is one of the CTT regulations. It states:

(d) Machines fitted with triathlon handlebars and derivations thereof which have forearm supports, or Spinacci type handlebars without forearm supports, may be used provided that when the rider adopts a competitive position on these bars:

(i) The wrists are no lower than the elbows.
(ii) The point of the elbow (olecranon) is no more than 3 centimetres in front of the steering axis when measured perpendicular (at right angles) to that axis. This measurement is illustrated by the following diagram:
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Just had a good read of a few of the rules. My bike has a UCI sticker on and I've never moved the pads as they are on a fixed bar and can't move forward or back so should be ok.
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TriSam




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a similar vein, what % of FTP have people ridden to in a 50TT for success? Got my first standalone 50 this year, that's not part of a tri, and want to get the most out of it.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
In a similar vein, what % of FTP have people ridden to in a 50TT for success? Got my first standalone 50 this year, that's not part of a tri, and want to get the most out of it.


In a search for the same thing on Google I found this thread from here in 2011 - http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=80100
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
In a similar vein, what % of FTP have people ridden to in a 50TT for success? Got my first standalone 50 this year, that's not part of a tri, and want to get the most out of it.


10 - 21:55 - 310W - (Levens on a wet ok'ish day)
25 - 58:15 - 270W - (local dc, again ok day)
50 - 1:58:20 - 280W - (as above)
100 - 4:14 - 230W

That was the wattages for my PB's, I have done slower 10's with 315+. The 25 is a bit of an anomaly and was 5 years ago so could have been helped by conditions\traffic etc.

I also think the 50 might be slightly over as I could have had Q rings on, I haven't kept that information. Think I just had a good day and it was a week before IMUK so I'd rested a bit and was in decent form (until I made a balls of the IM Sad )

Jeff
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1443
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:
TriSam wrote:
In a similar vein, what % of FTP have people ridden to in a 50TT for success? Got my first standalone 50 this year, that's not part of a tri, and want to get the most out of it.


10 - 21:55 - 310W - (Levens on a wet ok'ish day)
25 - 58:15 - 270W - (local dc, again ok day)
50 - 1:58:20 - 280W - (as above)
100 - 4:14 - 230W

That was the wattages for my PB's, I have done slower 10's with 315+. The 25 is a bit of an anomaly and was 5 years ago so could have been helped by conditions\traffic etc.

I also think the 50 might be slightly over as I could have had Q rings on, I haven't kept that information. Think I just had a good day and it was a week before IMUK so I'd rested a bit and was in decent form (until I made a balls of the IM Sad )

Jeff


What % of FTP are they or were they at the time?
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
JeffB wrote:
TriSam wrote:
In a similar vein, what % of FTP have people ridden to in a 50TT for success? Got my first standalone 50 this year, that's not part of a tri, and want to get the most out of it.


10 - 21:55 - 310W - (Levens on a wet ok'ish day)
25 - 58:15 - 270W - (local dc, again ok day)
50 - 1:58:20 - 280W - (as above)
100 - 4:14 - 230W

That was the wattages for my PB's, I have done slower 10's with 315+. The 25 is a bit of an anomaly and was 5 years ago so could have been helped by conditions\traffic etc.

I also think the 50 might be slightly over as I could have had Q rings on, I haven't kept that information. Think I just had a good day and it was a week before IMUK so I'd rested a bit and was in decent form (until I made a balls of the IM Sad )

Jeff


What % of FTP are they or were they at the time?


If you base your FTP on 95% of a 20 min test or a 10, I'd say something like.

10 - 105%
25 - 90%
50 - 95%
100 - 78%

Most of them have been in the last 2-3 years and I don't think my FTP has changed that much as most of them are later in the year once I've actually ridden and raced a bit.

The 25 is nearly 5 years ago and I think I did make some improvements after that, and it could have been a low reading on the PM.

I should say that I don't really do out and out FTP tests, just tend to do a hard 10 and see what that comes back with, or a 25 which is about an hour.

Jeff
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