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What happens if MPs say no to final deal?
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: What happens if MPs say no to final deal? Reply with quote

Title says it all really. Are we just kicked out on our buts at two years?
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The_Exile




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect other than the SNP and Lib Dems very few would vote against it - especially given the number of Labour MPs in Leave areas. I think what happens in Copeland and Stoke will be key to how many MPs vote. If they lose the seat or get their majorities cut then I imagine a lot will have their hand forced into playing along for fear of losing their seat in a snap election - if they don't lose them in the boundary changes.

If they did vote it down then I imagine that Theresa May would be left with no option but to call a general election, the the "Final Deal" that was voted down being in her manifesto and then rely on getting a big enough majority to get it through - with a campaign based very heavily in leave areas with labour MPs.

It will be interesting to see what the SNP do now given that Theresa May has breached one of the "red lines" that would result in another independnece election. Do they have the election and probably lose it again, or look weak and not call it - tough decision.
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Whisk




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My local (Labour) MP was very vocally pro-Brexit, but the constituency voted 80% Remain, so she was clearly in tune with her constituents on that issue Rolling Eyes
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

then they would be even bigger fools than they were to land us in this mess in the first place...
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
then they would be even bigger fools than they were to land us in this mess in the first place...
why?

I am not saying that I believe this but you could argue the case, quite strongly, and supported by what Merkel has said to German business etc, that it simply is not in the EUs interest to be helpful (when looked at from the perspectives of (1) principle, and (2) the bigger picture of discouraging other potential leavers), and that is in the EUs direct interest just to say bye bye Britain.

We have after all been a right pain in the ass since we joined. And realistically getting every EU nation to approve a fair deal for us might be politically challenging.

Polibloodyticians I need to have a shower just thinking about the fact that one day I might become one. Uuurrrggghhh

As a side thought we are strong on soft power at the moment, and are likely to remain so, but quite possibly to a much lessor degree if (1)French once again becomes the lingafranca of the EU, (2) we can't get the passporting we want in all it's forms, and (3) The UK collapses through Scots independence and some sort of trouble in Ireland.

Five to ten years from now England really could be a washed up has been in global affairs. I dearly hope not, but it is now entirely possible, and behind the scenes and political puff our high hied yins must know this. Still we might be better for it. I doubt it but you never know.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
then they would be even bigger fools than they were to land us in this mess in the first place...
why?

I am not saying that I believe this but you could argue the case, quite strongly, and supported by what Merkel has said to German business etc, that it simply is not in the EUs interest to be helpful (when looked at from the perspectives of (1) principle, and (2) the bigger picture of discouraging other potential leavers), and that is in the EUs direct interest just to say bye bye Britain.

We have after all been a right pain in the ass since we joined. And realistically getting every EU nation to approve a fair deal for us might be politically challenging.



i would hope we were a right pain in the ass; everyday those accounts weren't squared away, or those policies caused waste and distress, I wish someone had been poking them in the chest...

You are correct that it is not in the EU commissions interest to be kind, but it is in the interests of businesses all over the EU. However, like all ideological fundamentalists, the policy has not been to make things better by staying but to make things harder for leaving.

I love it when the unprincipled cry foul and claim the right of principles...
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to admit this Ejc but I sort of agree with you. If the house had been in better order (which I have been shouting about for years) and if they could say "ok let's make things work better for the future...."

Mind you I am just grumbling as they never considered me for President high honcho, bloke in charge of reform. Wink
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Gus




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Five to ten years from now England really could be a washed up has been in global affairs. I dearly hope not, but it is now entirely possible, and behind the scenes and political puff our high hied yins must know this. Still we might be better for it. I doubt it but you never know.


No, Sloggers, I think there is very little chance we will be a 'washed up has been in global affairs', and I don't agree it is entirely possible.

We are in an extremely powerful position, which so many people are keen to ignore in their blind allegiance to remain under the EU cosh.

We sit on the doorstep of the EU, with so many links at so many levels - whatever the eventual 'deal' we agree, we will always remain as some form of entryway into the EU for much of the world.

Germany and France bluff and bluster making all sorts of threats - the political masters may well be demanding ideology over practicality - but all that's going to do is sink the EU eventually. Like the USSR, bad ideology that is fundamentally flawed will always fail - it's just a matter of time.

Germany/France etc. know damn well they are so much poorer now without us and they, in turn, are now having to shoulder an even greater burden to prop up the periphery countries (the net-takers) - they are basically f*ked in the long term.

We, on the other hand, are not shackled by having to get every sub-sub-sub subsidiary of our country to agree every detail before we can sign any treaty/deal/business arrangement like the EU. As I rattle on over and over again - the EU HAS NOT SIGNED ONE SINGLE TRADE AGREEMENT WITH A TOP10 ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, EVER because it CAN'T get over this simple, fundamental problem.

We are now free to make our own deals - we are a rich, productive economy, one of the most powerful in the world that other countries want to deal with. We have a free hand to agree whatever we want with them, and quickly. If we don't get what we want, we fall back to WTO arrangements - which are no bad thing.

People really need to grow some balls; when I think of the generations before us that built this country, on their own, into the powerful nation that it has been, I'm ashamed of this generation that has become so reliant on being told how to do things by the EU, suckling on that European teat like a pathetic calf incapable of thinking for itself. We have forgotten how to look after ourselves. We have forgotten that we are more than capable of building a great country again. We have the brains, the economy, the capability and we have an amazing heritage and history to build from. All we need are the people who believe in this and make it happen.

Dear God, I was watching 'The Halcyon' last night, set in 1939, when France fell to the Germans and got a sense of the feeling of fear our grandparents must've felt standing alone against the might of Germany just over the Channel. What did they do? They didn't snivel how unfair it all was, surrender pathetically to what they saw as the inevitable. That generation had balls, backbone enough to stand firm and believe in themselves. When I look around and see so many 'remainers' snivelling about how 'weak' we are it seriously pisses me off and I know our forefathers would sneer at people like them.

Thank God there are enough of us in this country that can see past all this and actually have the belief, will and motivation to rebuild this nation and make it something to be proud of once again. Once we shake off these moaning weaklings and let them stew in self-pity and mutually masturbate on social media, the rest of us can actually make something positive of our great situation. We are a strong, independent and powerful nation and it's about time we proved it once again.

Damn, that got me ranting.
Wink
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus

I enjoyed reading that and I do genuinely hope that history proves you right. And you may well be.

I am just miffed as I rather like the concept of the EU, and the UN for that matter, and would very much like to live in a United States of Earth. (Not a one size fits all, but subsidiarity being effective, respecting national differences etc).

Realistically I should accept that the EU was never going to reform itself without external shocks, which they now have. The question is will they reform?

But in a world where America goes protectionist while China becomes the beacon of free trade anything is possible. Shocked

I am proud of Britain by the way.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, and we're back to the other thread... the trouble we have is that those driving the EU project have their own selfish agenda (choose your conspiracy theory of choice) which is clearly not on the path of a happy, one-earth happy family as you ideologically aspire to. Some would argue it's a crude attempt at the New World Order (single, global Government) but they are demonstrating crass amateurism in running things if this is truly their goal.

I can't believe they are that stupid so perhaps have another agenda on their horizon. Either that or it really is the simplest explanation - human nature at its worst: selfish, stubborn greed.

Until aliens appear, I'm afraid I see one-world Government only happening by force (and therefore not a 'happy, global family').
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veggieboy




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
Yeah, and we're back to the other thread... the trouble we have is that those driving the EU project have their own selfish agenda (choose your conspiracy theory of choice) which is clearly not on the path of a happy, one-earth happy family as you ideologically aspire to. Some would argue it's a crude attempt at the New World Order (single, global Government) but they are demonstrating crass amateurism in running things if this is truly their goal.

I can't believe they are that stupid so perhaps have another agenda on their horizon. Either that or it really is the simplest explanation - human nature at its worst: selfish, stubborn greed.

Until aliens appear, I'm afraid I see one-world Government only happening by force (and therefore not a 'happy, global family').

Correct on the alien front
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Gus

I enjoyed reading that and I do genuinely hope that history proves you right. And you may well be.

I am just miffed as I rather like the concept of the EU, and the UN for that matter, and would very much like to live in a United States of Earth. (Not a one size fits all, but subsidiarity being effective, respecting national differences etc).

Realistically I should accept that the EU was never going to reform itself without external shocks, which they now have. The question is will they reform?

But in a world where America goes protectionist while China becomes the beacon of free trade anything is possible. Shocked

I am proud of Britain by the way.
y

EU reform? No.

The US has gone protectionist as a direct response to years of vacant left policies, huge financial waste and an opposition that proposed the least suitable candidate since her husband....
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:

Until aliens appear, I'm afraid I see one-world Government only happening by force (and therefore not a 'happy, global family').


Force or farce

Both work equally well....
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veggieboy wrote:
Gus wrote:
Yeah, and we're back to the other thread... the trouble we have is that those driving the EU project have their own selfish agenda (choose your conspiracy theory of choice) which is clearly not on the path of a happy, one-earth happy family as you ideologically aspire to. Some would argue it's a crude attempt at the New World Order (single, global Government) but they are demonstrating crass amateurism in running things if this is truly their goal.

I can't believe they are that stupid so perhaps have another agenda on their horizon. Either that or it really is the simplest explanation - human nature at its worst: selfish, stubborn greed.

Until aliens appear, I'm afraid I see one-world Government only happening by force (and therefore not a 'happy, global family').

Correct on the alien front
appologies now, I couldn't resist Very Happy

Aliens appearing....

Numerous religious and esoteric texts (I know this can come down to interpretation is some cases) talk about....

Gods coming in Fiery chariots in the sky
Gods taking our women and shagging them.....

Which sort of means gods are aliens and we are the offspring.

Which coincidentally ties in nicely with twentieth century alien abduction accounts of genetic engineering. Tim Good for example has written and spoken about how our genetic engineering underwent a boost in early to late twentieth century.


My point, we are what we are looking for.


Sorry couldn't help myself blame Gus and Veggieboy.
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Tim Good for example has written and spoken about how our genetic engineering underwent a boost in early to late twentieth century.


Yes, I'm sure the intervention of aliens or gods are the best explanation of why late 20th century genetic engineering was better than Victorian genetic engineering.
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