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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

SJW? What is that?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:

You may be correct. Equally I may just have found a way of combining age old knowledge and combining it with modern day science

.


age old speculation

SloggingScotsman wrote:


I may actually be able to continue contributing positively to some people's lives (thinking the two religious examples I gave before)

.


how does finding religion contribute positively to a life?

SloggingScotsman wrote:


and nowadays even Ejc is slowly coming around to the possibilities of what I am trying to crack.
.


am I?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

SJW? What is that?


social justice warrior
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

SJW? What is that?


social justice warrior
ok thanks Ejc.
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Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:


and nowadays even Ejc is slowly coming around to the possibilities of what I am trying to crack.
.


am I?


I was going to say, can we have corroborative evidence of this?
Wink
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:


...but Trump's lack of honesty and decency is beyond the pale...had the left put up anyone else then possibly...

The only thing Trump has going for him is that he doesn't have to take those calls, he doesn't need to be bankrolled...that doesn't mean he won't, of course...


Ironically, I think it's this very outrageous personality that has appealed to so many people. Many are sick and tired of the same old, anodyne, politically correct, every-word-measured politician. He comes as a breath of fresh(?!) air with his blunt speaking.

Which means what he has often said is the previously unsayable - ie more honest than most other politicians dare speak.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
explorerJC wrote:


...but Trump's lack of honesty and decency is beyond the pale...had the left put up anyone else then possibly...

The only thing Trump has going for him is that he doesn't have to take those calls, he doesn't need to be bankrolled...that doesn't mean he won't, of course...


Ironically, I think it's this very outrageous personality that has appealed to so many people. Many are sick and tired of the same old, anodyne, politically correct, every-word-measured politician. He comes as a breath of fresh(?!) air with his blunt speaking.

Which means what he has often said is the previously unsayable - ie more honest than most other politicians dare speak.


obviously more people voted for him than said that they voted for him...a bit like the london set voting for labour but praying for tory...
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Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Gus wrote:
explorerJC wrote:


...but Trump's lack of honesty and decency is beyond the pale...had the left put up anyone else then possibly...

The only thing Trump has going for him is that he doesn't have to take those calls, he doesn't need to be bankrolled...that doesn't mean he won't, of course...


Ironically, I think it's this very outrageous personality that has appealed to so many people. Many are sick and tired of the same old, anodyne, politically correct, every-word-measured politician. He comes as a breath of fresh(?!) air with his blunt speaking.

Which means what he has often said is the previously unsayable - ie more honest than most other politicians dare speak.


obviously more people voted for him than said that they voted for him...a bit like the london set voting for labour but praying for tory...


This actually hits on a very valid point...

By way of example, my wife and I were staunchly pro-Brexit and (for reasons mentioned above) pro-Trump. Yet before the votes, look at the MSM, social media, every public conversation and we always felt we were clearly holding a minority view. Our views were publicly judged as intolerable, in fact we felt we were held in complete contempt by the seeming vast majority of people and the prevailing view. This included many of our very vocal friends on Facebook. We therefore kept quiet about our opinions and resigned ourselves to at least making what we assumed was a relatively pointless vote and assumed defeat.

As we discovered, the 'silent' like us were, in fact, the majority. The vocal, rabid, angry, 'offended' were the minority. What a revelation that was: He who shouts loudest isn't necessarily right.

And yet, since the Brexit vote and the Trump election, the minority* maintain their vocal, anti-democratic noise throughout all the media outlets. Friends on Facebook likewise still can't let it go and fill my page with their minority-view bile. Only a few actually acknowledged the truth of their position and actually admitted, hang on, maybe our view isn't necessarily the only 'right' view out there.

For example, watching the BBC's post-vote coverage of both Brexit and Trump, it was frankly disgusting the partisan view they clearly took. Likewise many other outlets.

Democracy's great when it goes your way. For many, when it doesn't, the system is 'wrong'.

[And watching so many anti-Brexit and anti-Trump protests... seriously, wtf? Do you honestly think that's going to achieve anything? Don't you realise you're actually demonstrating against democracy itself? They just will NOT accept they are wrong in the majority view.]

[*ignoring the technical 'majority' vote argument in the US election]
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Democracy is indeed democracy, and I will admit that I too am a little surprised at the fact that people are protesting globally over Trump. He won. He was duly elected. Move on. There will be a chance in four years to vote again. In the meantime facts are facts, so give the bloke a chance.

What is of more concern to me is..

1. How media, including the economist, seem to have difficulty with foreseeing the victory. I am sorry but I was getting laughed at from the point he announced his candacy.

2. Are our intelligence services more switched on and can they foresee the likely consequences? Or are they now frantically scenario planning!

3. Will our politicians recognise that they have seriously screwed up over recent years and work to make politics more relevant and more trusted?

There is a serious dark side to all of this, but equally an illuminating side. Will our establishments and nations walk into darkness or renew and illuminate again?
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One word: groupthink.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Gus wrote:
explorerJC wrote:


...but Trump's lack of honesty and decency is beyond the pale...had the left put up anyone else then possibly...

The only thing Trump has going for him is that he doesn't have to take those calls, he doesn't need to be bankrolled...that doesn't mean he won't, of course...


Ironically, I think it's this very outrageous personality that has appealed to so many people. Many are sick and tired of the same old, anodyne, politically correct, every-word-measured politician. He comes as a breath of fresh(?!) air with his blunt speaking.

Which means what he has often said is the previously unsayable - ie more honest than most other politicians dare speak.


obviously more people voted for him than said that they voted for him...a bit like the london set voting for labour but praying for tory...


This actually hits on a very valid point...

By way of example, my wife and I were staunchly pro-Brexit and (for reasons mentioned above) pro-Trump. Yet before the votes, look at the MSM, social media, every public conversation and we always felt we were clearly holding a minority view. Our views were publicly judged as intolerable, in fact we felt we were held in complete contempt by the seeming vast majority of people and the prevailing view. This included many of our very vocal friends on Facebook. We therefore kept quiet about our opinions and resigned ourselves to at least making what we assumed was a relatively pointless vote and assumed defeat.

As we discovered, the 'silent' like us were, in fact, the majority. The vocal, rabid, angry, 'offended' were the minority. What a revelation that was: He who shouts loudest isn't necessarily right.

And yet, since the Brexit vote and the Trump election, the minority* maintain their vocal, anti-democratic noise throughout all the media outlets. Friends on Facebook likewise still can't let it go and fill my page with their minority-view bile. Only a few actually acknowledged the truth of their position and actually admitted, hang on, maybe our view isn't necessarily the only 'right' view out there.

For example, watching the BBC's post-vote coverage of both Brexit and Trump, it was frankly disgusting the partisan view they clearly took. Likewise many other outlets.

Democracy's great when it goes your way. For many, when it doesn't, the system is 'wrong'.

[And watching so many anti-Brexit and anti-Trump protests... seriously, wtf? Do you honestly think that's going to achieve anything? Don't you realise you're actually demonstrating against democracy itself? They just will NOT accept they are wrong in the majority view.]

[*ignoring the technical 'majority' vote argument in the US election]


when Neil Kinnock lost the election for labour...the second time they were odds on and lost...his reaction was "when will the people learn"....

and, on FB today.....rioting in Gambia and Washington because they don't like the election result





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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

SJW? What is that?


social justice warrior
ok thanks Ejc.


that means that I am pro social justice, but not the carp that poses for it today...
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:


1. How media, including the economist, seem to have difficulty with foreseeing the victory. I am sorry but I was getting laughed at from the point he announced his candacy.


I don't want to be unnecessarily mean, but I sense that his is becoming a common theme...

SloggingScotsman wrote:


2. Are our intelligence services more switched on and can they foresee the likely consequences? Or are they now frantically scenario planning!


As you would expect, the left has tried to switch the world off to the most obvious, vocal and capable threat...

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Will our politicians recognise that they have seriously screwed up over recent years and work to make politics more relevant and more trusted?


no, because the population is becoming more left leaning all the time. One of the advantages of letting in the fittest and richest of the economic migrants, is that it is diluting the vote...and, in the long term, and, for all the wrong reasons, it will come through...

SloggingScotsman wrote:
There is a serious dark side to all of this, but equally an illuminating side. Will our establishments and nations walk into darkness or renew and illuminate again?
That you consider the opposition to be the 'dark side' shows how ill suited you really are to this global community you seek
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:


1. How media, including the economist, seem to have difficulty with foreseeing the victory. I am sorry but I was getting laughed at from the point he announced his candacy.


I don't want to be unnecessarily mean, but I sense that his is becoming a common theme...

SloggingScotsman wrote:


2. Are our intelligence services more switched on and can they foresee the likely consequences? Or are they now frantically scenario planning!


As you would expect, the left has tried to switch the world off to the most obvious, vocal and capable threat...

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Will our politicians recognise that they have seriously screwed up over recent years and work to make politics more relevant and more trusted?


no, because the population is becoming more left leaning all the time. One of the advantages of letting in the fittest and richest of the economic migrants, is that it is diluting the vote...and, in the long term, and, for all the wrong reasons, it will come through...

SloggingScotsman wrote:
There is a serious dark side to all of this, but equally an illuminating side. Will our establishments and nations walk into darkness or renew and illuminate again?
That you consider the opposition to be the 'dark side' shows how ill suited you really are to this global community you seek
and that shows that you don't understand me Ejc, which I will accept is my fault for not explaining my words.

At no point did I imply that the opposition were the dark side. I was referring to the darkness and light that is to be found within us all and how it can multiply in groups.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:


SloggingScotsman wrote:
There is a serious dark side to all of this, but equally an illuminating side. Will our establishments and nations walk into darkness or renew and illuminate again?
That you consider the opposition to be the 'dark side' shows how ill suited you really are to this global community you seek
and that shows that you don't understand me Ejc, which I will accept is my fault for not explaining my words.

At no point did I imply that the opposition were the dark side. I was referring to the darkness and light that is to be found within us all and how it can multiply in groups.[/quote]

Why is this not the illuminated side?
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