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Hostages...anyone work in the field?
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TransitionTed




Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
As I imagine the subject of a loved one being held hostage is a rather emotive subject, especially with close relatives of said loved ones, and professionals involved, then might I suggest trying to find something less emotive, like a pair of socks?
Running before walking springs to mind
that would actually be tremendously harder tt. It's the emotions that make it more doable.

Again you have illustrated an expectation gap between what people,think viewers should be able to do (find socks) and what they can actually do (which will vary depending on which viewer you talk to, so follow the data not what people claim)


but aren't emotions subjective, making it more difficult to be definitive?
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
As I imagine the subject of a loved one being held hostage is a rather emotive subject, especially with close relatives of said loved ones, and professionals involved, then might I suggest trying to find something less emotive, like a pair of socks?
Running before walking springs to mind
that would actually be tremendously harder tt. It's the emotions that make it more doable.

Again you have illustrated an expectation gap between what people,think viewers should be able to do (find socks) and what they can actually do (which will vary depending on which viewer you talk to, so follow the data not what people claim)


but aren't emotions subjective, making it more difficult to be definitive?
yes, and not as much of a problem as you may think.

Though emotions in viewing can be very dangerous to viewers, but I don't think that is what you are getting at (one target literally has my stomach tied up in agonising knots....-and remember I did not know what the target was when working it).

Let me explain...

There are two ways emotions can come into play.

The first is the emotions of the viewer as he accesses a target (wow"! #@?#,! This is nice, get me outta here etc)

The second, and much harder to get at all, far less accurately, is the emotions of people at the target.

However an emotional target tends to be full of energy, and energy is inherently traceable.

Now some viewers will dispute what I say next. But it is possible to connect with energy, I do it in my viewing all the time. (Some viewers are adamant that viewing has nothing to do with following energy). For this reason a nuclear explosion is much easier to view than someone jumping. The Temple Mound is easier to view than a newly built home (other things being equal).

Now once you get that stomach knotting emotion, it is very easy to misinterpret it. One target had me convinced that a terrorist attack was going to take place. So I asked the target setter to make sure that American security services were aware, if they thought it appropriate.

All that I knew about the target was that someone was going somewhere. It turned out it was a retired us military remote viewer going to a reunion at a tobacco boat military base.

Now I had assumed that it was a terrorist attack, and I came up with lots of detail, who was involved, positions, who identified terrorist on site etc iirc. But that terrorist attack did not take place. And my session didn't even describe a boat which was the focus of the set target. So was I completely off target? Most probably. Perhaps I felt that "bottling" guts knotting of someone what going to get an award and didn't like standing up in front of people? Perhaps I foiled a terrorist attack that never happened because someone took my warning seriously? I will never know. But as I type this I can still feel that stomach knot. That is unusual in itself.

Ex us military remote viewers have said you need to do thousands of sessions to get good, I have only done about 150, so am very much a beginner. Targets can and will exhaust you, they drain your energy just as much as Ironman does.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would just like to remind people that I have only done one session in over a year as I am busing working my way through the ICAEW training manuals, which I should,be through around summer to autumn time.

I realised the sheer power of viewing it hit me like a brick wall. My mum died, I gave up drinking, and have had to deal with difficult personal issues which have also been a challenge, leaving little desire to view. But I have invested a lot of time into thinking about application development e.g. Finding submarines after the economist article.


However I do seem to have a knack for it and need to earn a living again.

My data is all published, and my work supporting that data is auditable if the need arises. Though later sessions are better and better recorded than earlier ones.

I have also given my opinion on the British governments remote viewing trial in my books. Based on what wasn't redacted no wonder it failed. But my view obviously may be different if the redactions weren't there as I would have more information. Interestingly we seemed to do this without any obvious input from the declassified American thirty? year remote viewing project! Go figure?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
I would just like to remind people that I have only done one session in over a year as I am busing working my way through the ICAEW training manuals, which I should,be through around summer to autumn time.

I realised the sheer power of viewing it hit me like a brick wall. My mum died, I gave up drinking, and have had to deal with difficult personal issues which have also been a challenge, leaving little desire to view. But I have invested a lot of time into thinking about application development e.g. Finding submarines after the economist article.


However I do seem to have a knack for it and need to earn a living again.

My data is all published, and my work supporting that data is auditable if the need arises. Though later sessions are better and better recorded than earlier ones.

I have also given my opinion on the British governments remote viewing trial in my books. Based on what wasn't redacted no wonder it failed. But my view obviously may be different if the redactions weren't there as I would have more information. Interestingly we seemed to do this without any obvious input from the declassified American thirty? year remote viewing project! Go figure?


If the US have been viewing all this time....what do you think they are working on at the moment?

You could always find out where on earth the Trident test missile landed....
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
I would just like to remind people that I have only done one session in over a year as I am busing working my way through the ICAEW training manuals, which I should,be through around summer to autumn time.

I realised the sheer power of viewing it hit me like a brick wall. My mum died, I gave up drinking, and have had to deal with difficult personal issues which have also been a challenge, leaving little desire to view. But I have invested a lot of time into thinking about application development e.g. Finding submarines after the economist article.


However I do seem to have a knack for it and need to earn a living again.

My data is all published, and my work supporting that data is auditable if the need arises. Though later sessions are better and better recorded than earlier ones.

I have also given my opinion on the British governments remote viewing trial in my books. Based on what wasn't redacted no wonder it failed. But my view obviously may be different if the redactions weren't there as I would have more information. Interestingly we seemed to do this without any obvious input from the declassified American thirty? year remote viewing project! Go figure?


If the US have been viewing all this time....what do you think they are working on at the moment?

You could always find out where on earth the Trident test missile landed....
ejc, you are being silly again.

The US admit to funding the project for I think thirty years before dropping it like a stone, after a whistleblower and changed personnel at the top. They invested millions in back in the day dollars remember, into pure science using physicists to make viewing work better. This is all declassified.

Personally don't believe that they dont still do it as it does work. Though I accept reliability and usefulness issues and also the views of new generals who may simply have been anti the concept.

Does make you wonder how much more advanced other nations and groups, perhaps even commercially trained by those ex us military viewers, are though! Or nations or groups who are more naturally culturally attuned to the phenomenon than we are. It is after all a natural phenomenon that we in the west tend to ridicule, but other cultures accept and possibly in some cases treasure.

And now I will play your game and answer your questions Ejc...

1. Don't have a clue, none of my business and I know better than to go looking. Haven't stumbled across any US viewers in the "matrix" (had to get a Hollywood reference in Very Happy Very Happy )

2. Why they must know where it landed, and again none of my business.

I am primarily interested in the commercial applications of viewing not the spook stuff that quite frankly only spooks should be doing.

Now Ejc if you feel that you need to belittle at my expense then that is up to you.
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Pedro Peru




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Pedro Peru wrote:
Are you after latitude and longitude type data?
that is what I hope to be able to end up with, after years of research and work.

Which is why a list of hostages and the locations they were held or recovered would be a valuable training tool. It would enable me to refine what is in my head as I practiced, and in a few years time, hopefully the end result would be reliable coordinates produced to aid hostage finding.

Other viewers make claims about being involved in such things, missing persons cases and the like, and no doubt some have had measures of success. It is something that I have thought about after, if you remember a while ago on another thread, I noted that I once looked at a photo and a spontaneous set of numbers entered my head, which I wrote down and which, coincidentally if they did represent geographic coordinates place the victim one state away (over a state line) from where the body was actually found. The only other time it happened it wasn't so neat. But this got me thinking about whether it was possible for a viewer to actually generate geographical coordinates, which in the civilian world at least, is still pie in the sky.

As time has passed I have developed methods by which it may be possible to refine this and combine viewing more effectively with maths and mainstream science to actually produce Lon and lat. which would be rather powerful.

I would have thought using a combination where they were held but also importantly the type of building they were held and its characteristics would be as important as the long. and Lat.??

Using maths/big data you could locate as many of that type of structures within certain radii of them being missing and then looking at who could have taken them and why.

I have no knowledge of this first hand (may already be obvious) but I do like data.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedro Peru wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Pedro Peru wrote:
Are you after latitude and longitude type data?
that is what I hope to be able to end up with, after years of research and work.

Which is why a list of hostages and the locations they were held or recovered would be a valuable training tool. It would enable me to refine what is in my head as I practiced, and in a few years time, hopefully the end result would be reliable coordinates produced to aid hostage finding.

Other viewers make claims about being involved in such things, missing persons cases and the like, and no doubt some have had measures of success. It is something that I have thought about after, if you remember a while ago on another thread, I noted that I once looked at a photo and a spontaneous set of numbers entered my head, which I wrote down and which, coincidentally if they did represent geographic coordinates place the victim one state away (over a state line) from where the body was actually found. The only other time it happened it wasn't so neat. But this got me thinking about whether it was possible for a viewer to actually generate geographical coordinates, which in the civilian world at least, is still pie in the sky.

As time has passed I have developed methods by which it may be possible to refine this and combine viewing more effectively with maths and mainstream science to actually produce Lon and lat. which would be rather powerful.

I would have thought using a combination where they were held but also importantly the type of building they were held and its characteristics would be as important as the long. and Lat.??

Using maths/big data you could locate as many of that type of structures within certain radii of them being missing and then looking at who could have taken them and why.

I have no knowledge of this first hand (may already be obvious) but I do like data.
indeed Pedro.

One of the two broad methods that I am chewing over, which I will talk about as I have already made it public, takes a very data driven approach to the problem.

It occurred to me after reading about the Nina Rita?? Case (I would have to check name) when some viewers worked with police etc to find a missing person.

Some of the drawings resembled fairly accurately where the body was buried.

It occurred to me that by digitising those drawings, with appropriate scalar maths, and data mining from satellite images could also have produced the location, more speedily. Ok may have needed more drawings but in principle.

I like data myself, though my only real experience of it was doing a MIT mooc on data analytics. Thoroughly enjoyed it.


Re buildings shapes etc that is bread and butter stuff for an advanced viewer.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully whoever is the new GCHQ boss will see the potential of combining viewing with data analytics.

And hopefully he or she will see the benefits of commercialising at least parts of it. I am happy to be involved with leading the commercial development of viewing in Britain. As long as you have realistic expectations over what is possible and timeframes. I.e. No expectations gap.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
I would just like to remind people that I have only done one session in over a year as I am busing working my way through the ICAEW training manuals, which I should,be through around summer to autumn time.

I realised the sheer power of viewing it hit me like a brick wall. My mum died, I gave up drinking, and have had to deal with difficult personal issues which have also been a challenge, leaving little desire to view. But I have invested a lot of time into thinking about application development e.g. Finding submarines after the economist article.


However I do seem to have a knack for it and need to earn a living again.

My data is all published, and my work supporting that data is auditable if the need arises. Though later sessions are better and better recorded than earlier ones.

I have also given my opinion on the British governments remote viewing trial in my books. Based on what wasn't redacted no wonder it failed. But my view obviously may be different if the redactions weren't there as I would have more information. Interestingly we seemed to do this without any obvious input from the declassified American thirty? year remote viewing project! Go figure?


If the US have been viewing all this time....what do you think they are working on at the moment?

You could always find out where on earth the Trident test missile landed....
ejc, you are being silly again.

The US admit to funding the project for I think thirty years before dropping it like a stone, after a whistleblower and changed personnel at the top. They invested millions in back in the day dollars remember, into pure science using physicists to make viewing work better. This is all declassified.

Personally don't believe that they dont still do it as it does work. Though I accept reliability and usefulness issues and also the views of new generals who may simply have been anti the concept.

Does make you wonder how much more advanced other nations and groups, perhaps even commercially trained by those ex us military viewers, are though! Or nations or groups who are more naturally culturally attuned to the phenomenon than we are. It is after all a natural phenomenon that we in the west tend to ridicule, but other cultures accept and possibly in some cases treasure.

And now I will play your game and answer your questions Ejc...

1. Don't have a clue, none of my business and I know better than to go looking. Haven't stumbled across any US viewers in the "matrix" (had to get a Hollywood reference in Very Happy Very Happy )

2. Why they must know where it landed, and again none of my business.

I am primarily interested in the commercial applications of viewing not the spook stuff that quite frankly only spooks should be doing.

Now Ejc if you feel that you need to belittle at my expense then that is up to you.


Why is it that you believe every question you receive is belittling your knowledge?
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2966

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
I would just like to remind people that I have only done one session in over a year as I am busing working my way through the ICAEW training manuals, which I should,be through around summer to autumn time.

I realised the sheer power of viewing it hit me like a brick wall. My mum died, I gave up drinking, and have had to deal with difficult personal issues which have also been a challenge, leaving little desire to view. But I have invested a lot of time into thinking about application development e.g. Finding submarines after the economist article.


However I do seem to have a knack for it and need to earn a living again.

My data is all published, and my work supporting that data is auditable if the need arises. Though later sessions are better and better recorded than earlier ones.

I have also given my opinion on the British governments remote viewing trial in my books. Based on what wasn't redacted no wonder it failed. But my view obviously may be different if the redactions weren't there as I would have more information. Interestingly we seemed to do this without any obvious input from the declassified American thirty? year remote viewing project! Go figure?


If the US have been viewing all this time....what do you think they are working on at the moment?

You could always find out where on earth the Trident test missile landed....
ejc, you are being silly again.

The US admit to funding the project for I think thirty years before dropping it like a stone, after a whistleblower and changed personnel at the top. They invested millions in back in the day dollars remember, into pure science using physicists to make viewing work better. This is all declassified.

Personally don't believe that they dont still do it as it does work. Though I accept reliability and usefulness issues and also the views of new generals who may simply have been anti the concept.

Does make you wonder how much more advanced other nations and groups, perhaps even commercially trained by those ex us military viewers, are though! Or nations or groups who are more naturally culturally attuned to the phenomenon than we are. It is after all a natural phenomenon that we in the west tend to ridicule, but other cultures accept and possibly in some cases treasure.

And now I will play your game and answer your questions Ejc...

1. Don't have a clue, none of my business and I know better than to go looking. Haven't stumbled across any US viewers in the "matrix" (had to get a Hollywood reference in Very Happy Very Happy )

2. Why they must know where it landed, and again none of my business.

I am primarily interested in the commercial applications of viewing not the spook stuff that quite frankly only spooks should be doing.

Now Ejc if you feel that you need to belittle at my expense then that is up to you.


Why is it that you believe every question you receive is belittling your knowledge?
ejc

You are funny.

Your questions above were asking if I had viewed military stuff. I am sure that there are laws against that sort of thing. You must know that given your background. Hence it is difficult to take those questions seriously. Though I chose to honestly answer them.

And in past times as I explained before some of your responses shed you in a poor light. Look them up, we had that discussion months ago.

Again you have made an assumption about what I believe, incorrectly. Just ask, don't assume.


Added....Ejc you also ask "I believe every question....belittling etc". I am genuinely curious Ejc, how on any level headed manner can you even think that "every" question I receive I take to be belittling? That is just plain silly, and mocking. And factually incorrect.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
I would just like to remind people that I have only done one session in over a year as I am busing working my way through the ICAEW training manuals, which I should,be through around summer to autumn time.

I realised the sheer power of viewing it hit me like a brick wall. My mum died, I gave up drinking, and have had to deal with difficult personal issues which have also been a challenge, leaving little desire to view. But I have invested a lot of time into thinking about application development e.g. Finding submarines after the economist article.


However I do seem to have a knack for it and need to earn a living again.

My data is all published, and my work supporting that data is auditable if the need arises. Though later sessions are better and better recorded than earlier ones.

I have also given my opinion on the British governments remote viewing trial in my books. Based on what wasn't redacted no wonder it failed. But my view obviously may be different if the redactions weren't there as I would have more information. Interestingly we seemed to do this without any obvious input from the declassified American thirty? year remote viewing project! Go figure?


If the US have been viewing all this time....what do you think they are working on at the moment?

You could always find out where on earth the Trident test missile landed....
ejc, you are being silly again.

The US admit to funding the project for I think thirty years before dropping it like a stone, after a whistleblower and changed personnel at the top. They invested millions in back in the day dollars remember, into pure science using physicists to make viewing work better. This is all declassified.

Personally don't believe that they dont still do it as it does work. Though I accept reliability and usefulness issues and also the views of new generals who may simply have been anti the concept.

Does make you wonder how much more advanced other nations and groups, perhaps even commercially trained by those ex us military viewers, are though! Or nations or groups who are more naturally culturally attuned to the phenomenon than we are. It is after all a natural phenomenon that we in the west tend to ridicule, but other cultures accept and possibly in some cases treasure.

And now I will play your game and answer your questions Ejc...

1. Don't have a clue, none of my business and I know better than to go looking. Haven't stumbled across any US viewers in the "matrix" (had to get a Hollywood reference in Very Happy Very Happy )

2. Why they must know where it landed, and again none of my business.

I am primarily interested in the commercial applications of viewing not the spook stuff that quite frankly only spooks should be doing.

Now Ejc if you feel that you need to belittle at my expense then that is up to you.


Why is it that you believe every question you receive is belittling your knowledge?
ejc

You are funny.

Your questions above were asking if I had viewed military stuff. I am sure that there are laws against that sort of thing. You must know that given your background. Hence it is difficult to take those questions seriously. Though I chose to honestly answer them.

And in past times as I explained before some of your responses shed you in a poor light. Look them up, we had that discussion months ago.

Again you have made an assumption about what I believe, incorrectly. Just ask, don't assume.


Added....Ejc you also ask "I believe every question....belittling etc". I am genuinely curious Ejc, how on any level headed manner can you even think that "every" question I receive I take to be belittling? That is just plain silly, and mocking. And factually incorrect.



The two questions above offered you the opportunity to enter into discussion about the topic. In the first case, I can think of at least one obvious, semi-topical, opportunity where this theory could have been practised. The results of success may have proven have been if some value and of failure to have had little or no impact.

The second question does imply a degree of humour, but not at your expense. It may have not only opened a potential discussion as to the quality of the missile system - very topical at present - but also why the public would incorrectly expect the missile system to be accurate*. That alone is a subject worth debating. It may even have branched out into a potted history on how we got from the untactical sub to the precision strikes* we have today, and how very few people on here get by without that technology today.

None of these discussion would fall foul of any laws that I am aware of.

Of course I make judgements, Sloggers, how on earth can anyone make sense of the world without? Yes, I do humour you at times, however, it is usually more obvious than the above when I take the piss. Some poster ran a bit of software a couple of years back that highlighted the TT clique....I would guess that if ran today, we'd be linked in the middle. That to me, and without checking the numbers, suggests that I have been the most pro active respondent to posts on this theory. It is not inconceivable that I have asked the most questions too.

However, as others have also pointed out, you have at times been less willing to answer questions and possibly more willing (my judgement) to criticise others for their lack of understanding of your posts and/or your links. This is sad for two reasons: firstly, whilst I am not sold on the concept as I understand it, I know enough about anthropology to recognise that humans historically had a greater capacity interpret the world through what, for ease, I will call a sixth sense. And secondly, that each of these interactions with an audience, no matter how sceptical, offer you the chance to refine your argument (as has been highlighted on other topics) and potentialy therefore improve your chances of taking this somewhere if the opportunity arises.

Of course, you put this stuff out there, and how you react is up to you.

With that, I'll go back to my shed with the poor light....
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Tigger




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't you combine all your bits of fun with this? Don't forget to use your ICAEW skills too to see if you see how well the money was spent.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

Very Happy

You recover well.

Truth be told I am not looking to refine arguments Ejc, as it isn't an argument. I am simply letting people know what I am doing and how things are progressing. If any opportunities come from it then great, but due diligence cuts both ways. But more to the point, given how at least I approach triathlon by loosing myself in a focused state, that is pretty much the same skill that is required to be a viewer. Hence it is possible that some here would make good viewers. Indeed while he has been silent throughout all of this I know that one other forumite is a much more experienced viewer than me. Hiya if you still post here Wink

Truth be told Ejc, while I didn't realise this until recently I have been using these skills in an uncontrolled way since childhood, it was only after skepically I might add, I decided to give viewing a try that I found out that I could do it. Then I found out I could use my rather wide ranging education and life experiences to build applications. It's a fun hobby for me, which one day I might earn a crust from.

The really funny bit is that bar one session I haven't done any viewing since stopping drinking, so it would be funny if I could no longer do it! I will find out in due course. Still even in that worst case scenario, I could continue to build applications.

1. First person to publish data. To help others benchmark.
2. First person to perform a public demonstration that it is possible to divert a viewer from his target (some viewers claim that is impossible).
3. Identified a way to solve the finding sub problem reported in the economist, conceptually at least.
4. Published a way to combine viewing with big data to help find people, conceptually.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2966

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are that interested Ejc, do what I did, try it for yourself.

If you give it a fair try then you will know if it is within your skill set.

you dont need to take my word for it.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15855
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
If you are that interested Ejc, do what I did, try it for yourself.

If you give it a fair try then you will know if it is within your skill set.

you dont need to take my word for it.


i have other projects on the go...

...judging by my ability to find my keys, ted's socks and suitable employment, i think that subs and hostages may be beyond me...

...and don't worry, I haven't taken your word for it...
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