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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Bagehot this weeks Economist Reply with quote

Does anyone here know why Britains nuclear deterrent is unusable without America?

I get that we buy nukes from America, but once we have them, why are they unuseable without America?

The economist doesn't explain that statement.

I mean, I assume, that orders to fire would come from some British person, and our subs have the ability to fire independently, target etc. I mean if we don't have that what is the point!

What am I missing?


I realise that subs are super secret, but given that The Economist made the statement I hope it is reasonable to ask the question.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they are being misleading...

...the hardware of Trident is a US manufactured missile; the munition is UK made, as is the guidance (snigger, snigger) and the transportation...
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ejc, it just seemed a bit odd.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lefties always troll out that excuse when it comes to their annual attempt to get the country to surrender its nukes, claiming we couldnt use them anyway.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the reliance part is that the servicing/upgrades for the missile system has to come from the states....that's how we feked up with polaris and had to buy trident in the first place and could get stitched up again....


personally, i'd ditch trident, get the workforce working on sustainable energy, the arms industry working on more credible, theatre based weapons systems and sink the subs somewhere deep to keep Sloggers happy in trying to locate them...
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
Lefties always troll out that excuse when it comes to their annual attempt to get the country to surrender its nukes, claiming we couldnt use them anyway.


judging by the test the other day, they would probably be right...although I put a huge caveat around that statement, weapon systems success/accuracy rates are far less than public opinion seems to suggest or desire...

i don't think we'd ever use them anyway...for that reason alone, it's time to ditch them...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
sink the subs somewhere deep to keep Sloggers happy in trying to locate them...
Very Happy

Conceptually a sub that is hidden in some crevice in the rocks somewhere is just as findeable as one moving. For sure it would take a lot more work, as you would have fewer variable variables to "feel". But ultimately said sub would have to get to said crevice in the rocks in the first place, and would very much be traceable. Assuming that you could get viewers who could reliably feel the various elements of a water column ( and that is only stage 2 of the 6 declassified stages remember). This is one place the maths geek would come into play. The viewers (one for each element, playing to individual strengths, which also gives a team confirmation of being on target assuming the database confirms a possible track) have given a track, which has been input into computer and data mined against a very detailed oceanographic database to identify a possible/likely real life route. At the end where sub is sleeping, the maths geek can use maths combined with ocean floor maps and the database to identify likely spots. Then send drone to that area. Sub found, drone attached, home for tea and Bickies.

While a sleeping sub would take far longer to find than a moving one, I am pretty sure that the theory is robust enough to work, if you have the resources detailed previously.


Sorry Ejc you walked into that one......assuming of course we have drones that can sweep rocks in a defined location and be able to identify a sleeping sub from the surrounding rocks.

Come on if I can think this stuff up!

Pity I don't have the funds to train myself further, half a trillion pounds should do it. Wink
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
sink the subs somewhere deep to keep Sloggers happy in trying to locate them...
Very Happy

Conceptually a sub that is hidden in some crevice in the rocks somewhere is just as findeable as one moving. For sure it would take a lot more work, as you would have fewer variable variables to "feel". But ultimately said sub would have to get to said crevice in the rocks in the first place, and would very much be traceable. Assuming that you could get viewers who could reliably feel the various elements of a water column ( and that is only stage 2 of the 6 declassified stages remember). This is one place the maths geek would come into play. The viewers (one for each element, playing to individual strengths, which also gives a team confirmation of being on target assuming the database confirms a possible track) have given a track, which has been input into computer and data mined against a very detailed oceanographic database to identify a possible/likely real life route. At the end where sub is sleeping, the maths geek can use maths combined with ocean floor maps and the database to identify likely spots. Then send drone to that area. Sub found, drone attached, home for tea and Bickies.

While a sleeping sub would take far longer to find than a moving one, I am pretty sure that the theory is robust enough to work, if you have the resources detailed previously.


Sorry Ejc you walked into that one......assuming of course we have drones that can sweep rocks in a defined location and be able to identify a sleeping sub from the surrounding rocks.

Come on if I can think this stuff up!

Pity I don't have the funds to train myself further, half a trillion pounds should do it. Wink


you couldn't buy a naff nuclear deterrent for that...
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