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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2397

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
This is a submarine for which you know the mission plan, and it's gone missing? Good luck spotting it with a drone, unless it's just under the surface.
??? Jorgan, what are you talking about?

My theory would test the following.

You want to find a specific submarine, wherever it is in the worlds oceans. You may only know that it is the third to be built of a certain class. No more and no less. The viewer doesn't even necessarily need to know that if the target has been correctly set up, he just gets a set of numbers like 12345678.

You don't need to know any mission plans, though more detail could help with ensuring accurate target acquisition (in case of multiple subs in the same area etc).

Once the viewers data has been transposed into the database and a realistic path recognised by the hardware, a drone from any friendly nation nearby could verify. Depth under the surface is only limited by the drones ability to dive and to recognise what it sees.


Tell me, how much success have you had on the Lottery. I'd suggest that would be a good indicator of exactly what 'powers' you possess.

Call me a doubter.
Jorgan, I don't play the lottery, gambling isn't my thing, though conceptually I do find it fascinating.

Jorgan, I am not trying to sell you anything, so doubt as much as you like. I am also not claiming any "powers", while the viewing community is decisively split on this issue, the consensus seems to be that anyone can do it with training and practice. It's just not something that many seriously try. For balance however others say that if you aren't born with it no amount of training will help. So take your pick. All that I know is that I doubted, a decade later I tried and found that I could do it, and have published my results for others to benchmark against (as there was no way of comparing progress).

Chill man, it's not that conceptually different from a policemans gut or a ceos intuition. I am just combining it with data and maths etc.

Peace.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

Thinking about it not only have I explained how to find subs on here,.


This is where we differ...as far as I know, you have found no subs, and the method is unproven, so to claim that you have explained how to find them, from a scientific perspective, is disingenuous at best...what you may have done is to present a theory
You are correct Ejc, bad wording on my part. Genuine thanks for pointing that out. Funnily enough I am right now learning how to write an executive summary properly, and the last thing I read (p174 of case study manual, 2016 edition, Icaew) is "Clarity of expression is paramount".

So..

I have explained a theory I have developed on how to combine stage two controlled remote viewing with mathematics, big data and detailed oceanographic records, to assist in the effective location finding of submarines, anywhere in the oceans where the oceanographic records are sufficiently detailed. A drone can be used to verify results and subsequently follow submarine.


you have presented a theory...not sure that you have explained it to any degree of certainty
You want certainty from a cutting edge theory? No wonder we are laggards instead of leaders.


For a reasonable organisation to consider backing any research, it is usual for the researcher to present not only a written proposal, but probably complete a viva too. I appreciate that you once posted that you weren't on here to refine your argument, but you missed a great opportunity to practice doing so. It is possible that anyone looking in would also have noticed this reticence.
ejc

I don't need to argue, for I know that it works. Making it work usefully is an issue, which as you can see I have been working on.

Now I am not looking for anyone to back research. Just pointing out how our government could adapt what it has admitted to trying before to get better results.

The good thing about viewing is that the research is free, you just use your mind, and to a degree your body.

Quite frankly I couldn't care tuppence about proving it, for that has already happened many times over the past thirty years or so. It's the usefulness, and reliability that are issues.

Re submarines while I do hope that the British government use it to catch up on other nations I have no real issue whether they do or don't, for that is up to them.

I have been honest, transparent, willing to answer questions and explain misconceptions.

if that is not enough for you then please accept my apologies. Perhaps I should just publish a detailed how to in my next remote viewing book, they at least do have a marketplace and sell.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

You actually riled me there, for some reason, that is unusual, through all of your interrogations you haven't riled me until quarter of an hour ago. I must reflect upon why, for there is nothing obviously riling about your post.

Anyhow having checked what an "a viva" is could you be kind enough to reconcile for me how I have failed to submit to an oral questioning when I have, for months, answered each of your questions truthfully, accurately and as best I can? I have included opposing views and doubts and limitations etc. I think that you are being unkind here.

Not that it really matters, I am of to work out why I got riled at your post, or whether it was because it was on the back of Jordan's last post. That matters more to me.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14142
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

Thinking about it not only have I explained how to find subs on here,.


This is where we differ...as far as I know, you have found no subs, and the method is unproven, so to claim that you have explained how to find them, from a scientific perspective, is disingenuous at best...what you may have done is to present a theory
You are correct Ejc, bad wording on my part. Genuine thanks for pointing that out. Funnily enough I am right now learning how to write an executive summary properly, and the last thing I read (p174 of case study manual, 2016 edition, Icaew) is "Clarity of expression is paramount".

So..

I have explained a theory I have developed on how to combine stage two controlled remote viewing with mathematics, big data and detailed oceanographic records, to assist in the effective location finding of submarines, anywhere in the oceans where the oceanographic records are sufficiently detailed. A drone can be used to verify results and subsequently follow submarine.


you have presented a theory...not sure that you have explained it to any degree of certainty
You want certainty from a cutting edge theory? No wonder we are laggards instead of leaders.


For a reasonable organisation to consider backing any research, it is usual for the researcher to present not only a written proposal, but probably complete a viva too. I appreciate that you once posted that you weren't on here to refine your argument, but you missed a great opportunity to practice doing so. It is possible that anyone looking in would also have noticed this reticence.
ejc

I don't need to argue, for I know that it works. Making it work usefully is an issue, which as you can see I have been working on.

Now I am not looking for anyone to back research. Just pointing out how our government could adapt what it has admitted to trying before to get better results.

The good thing about viewing is that the research is free, you just use your mind, and to a degree your body.

Quite frankly I couldn't care tuppence about proving it, for that has already happened many times over the past thirty years or so. It's the usefulness, and reliability that are issues.

Re submarines while I do hope that the British government use it to catch up on other nations I have no real issue whether they do or don't, for that is up to them.

I have been honest, transparent, willing to answer questions and explain misconceptions.

if that is not enough for you then please accept my apologies. Perhaps I should just publish a detailed how to in my next remote viewing book, they at least do have a marketplace and sell.


i think that makes my point...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14142
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

You actually riled me there, for some reason, that is unusual, through all of your interrogations you haven't riled me until quarter of an hour ago. I must reflect upon why, for there is nothing obviously riling about your post.

Anyhow having checked what an "a viva" is could you be kind enough to reconcile for me how I have failed to submit to an oral questioning when I have, for months, answered each of your questions truthfully, accurately and as best I can? I have included opposing views and doubts and limitations etc. I think that you are being unkind here.

Not that it really matters, I am of to work out why I got riled at your post, or whether it was because it was on the back of Jordan's last post. That matters more to me.


During a viva, the emphasis would be on you to answer the questions and explain the science to the satisfaction of the interrogator (to use your terminology). This is especially so in research, but, noting that you don't care to prove such a theory, i would guess this would also be the case before the MOD or any business considered would let you loose with assets...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

I have said that if the British government ask me I will give them a detailed project set up guide. And if they do I will. Freely and willingly. (I would need a week to write it, correct spelling, ensure easily readable by all etc)

But I am not jumping through hoops at the command of a name on the net. That would be just silly.

Besides the science involved with the viewing aspect was created in intelligence circles so the mod should already have it. The rest is simply logical application using current day tools.

I am surprised that we appear to be so far behind the curve, I mean if I can think this stuff up....


It was Jorgan who riled me btw Ejc, it just felt like it was you as I responded to your two posts speedily. It is good that I have learnt something more about myself, so thank you both.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shouldn't btw guess Ejc, guesses are a bit like assumptions, often inaccurate.

Better to follow the data, and apply logic and reasoning.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is all getting a little bitter again, so this is probably not the place for it, so I will just publish my methods in my books.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
I shouldn't btw guess Ejc, guesses are a bit like assumptions, often inaccurate.

Better to follow the data, and apply logic and reasoning.


yep, logic, data and reasoning may well steer the casual observer away from remote viewing...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
I shouldn't btw guess Ejc, guesses are a bit like assumptions, often inaccurate.

Better to follow the data, and apply logic and reasoning.


yep, logic, data and reasoning may well steer the casual observer away from remote viewing...
ejc I am not going to enter a spat with you on this, so I will let you have your inevitable final say, but if a casual observer did follow the data they would see that it does show viewing does work, not all the time and rarely usefully, but it does work. My published data shows it, as do the US declassified documents (look in the stage by stage data, the military viewers could not move on a stage until they proved themselves in the preceding stage), and in lots of other places.

The problem is the expectations gap of what eg Jorgan and previously you yourself Ejc, assumes eg being able to read lottery numbers and letters and the reality, as declassified and taught by ex spooks that reading letters and numbers is perhaps the most difficult thing to do, which I have explained before along with the why's and whatnots.

Any casual observer who is objective, doesn't fear the implications, and who really studies the research will find that following the data does indeed show that viewing does work. Reliability and usefulness aside. Which is why I have spent a year and a half so far getting my mind around those two issues.

gee you are pushing my buttons now Ejc, I am impressed.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
I shouldn't btw guess Ejc, guesses are a bit like assumptions, often inaccurate.

Better to follow the data, and apply logic and reasoning.


yep, logic, data and reasoning may well steer the casual observer away from remote viewing...
ejc I am not going to enter a spat with you on this, so I will let you have your inevitable final say, but if a casual observer did follow the data they would see that it does show viewing does work, not all the time and rarely usefully, but it does work. My published data shows it, as do the US declassified documents (look in the stage by stage data, the military viewers could not move on a stage until they proved themselves in the preceding stage), and in lots of other places.

The problem is the expectations gap of what eg Jorgan and previously you yourself Ejc, assumes eg being able to read lottery numbers and letters and the reality, as declassified and taught by ex spooks that reading letters and numbers is perhaps the most difficult thing to do, which I have explained before along with the why's and whatnots.

Any casual observer who is objective, doesn't fear the implications, and who really studies the research will find that following the data does indeed show that viewing does work. Reliability and usefulness aside. Which is why I have spent a year and a half so far getting my mind around those two issues.

gee you are pushing my buttons now Ejc, I am impressed.


As a scientist in the loosest sense, i would suggest that even a casual observer cannot be objective....

As a student of evolutionary biology, I am very interested in understanding human potential through the forgotten skills of our history...however, my scepticism of this 'skill' at present is based on the lack of scientific rigour in the albeit small sample I have seen and the apparent tendency for the some of its proponents to also be science fictionists
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TransitionTed




Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

TT confirmed he was a real scientist.

It is interestingly true that a fair number of those in the viewing community have been Scientologists. I am not btw.


Tyrannical Ted is as good at buying cars as he is at identifying scientist credibility...

...whilst being a scientologist doesn't completely rule out scientific credibility in other fields, i think that it's about as close as you can get...


Harsh, not about me, about RT. He received his credentials via Queens College, so as far as physics is concerned at least, he's a learned man

The fact that he went off piste early doors is in no way suggestive of madness.

Anyway, I feel this thread has been filibustered enough by us mere mortals
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Tin Pot




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ss

Sometimes other people can see things that we cannot.

I'm not talking about remote viewing, I'm talking about an external perspective.

Perhaps the people on this forum that are contradicting your world view have a point. Perhaps their world view is a better one in this respect, and you could revise yours.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

TT confirmed he was a real scientist.

It is interestingly true that a fair number of those in the viewing community have been Scientologists. I am not btw.


Tyrannical Ted is as good at buying cars as he is at identifying scientist credibility...

...whilst being a scientologist doesn't completely rule out scientific credibility in other fields, i think that it's about as close as you can get...


Harsh, not about me, about RT. He received his credentials via Queens College, so as far as physics is concerned at least, he's a learned man

The fact that he went off piste early doors is in no way suggestive of madness.

Anyway, I feel this thread has been filibustered enough by us mere mortals


The scholarly work by which he is best known has been described as careless....I'd rather read about his adventures on a motorbike..l
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
@ss

Sometimes other people can see things that we cannot.

I'm not talking about remote viewing, I'm talking about an external perspective.

Perhaps the people on this forum that are contradicting your world view have a point. Perhaps their world view is a better one in this respect, and you could revise yours.
indeed TinPot, indeed. I have spent my whole life questioning and finding unique solutions to problems, but I in no way think that I know it all. Bearing in mind that I entered viewing as a sceptic myself, I fully understand how others could take differing views. As I have said on here before, one of the reasons that I have posted this stuff is to help enable me make the method more robust, and to find out (which went unanswered) how to get my work into scientific paper shape. Google has been my friend on this latter point.

For many months I have answered continual and detailed questioning, but there comes a point when you just think to yourself sod this for a game of soldiers, publish and be dammned. So I am, carefully and nievely (having never done this before) preparing a scientific styled paper, yesterday when I finished I had just covered my biases and limitations and started ethical implications. Others, mainly in America, and mainly though not exclusively iirc Officers in officer schools, have had remote viewing papers published in mainstream science and guessing without checking military journals, so why not try? Worst case scenario I simply more formally self publish the theory.

At the end of the day it's all about robustness, of the theory, to enable practical application by those with sufficient skills and resources, and in turn to help forward progression.

I am used to being laughed at for my theories, beliefs, predictions, until they happen, but using the Good Judgement Project I am providing independent mathematical evidence that I am not so bad at it, though admittedly only nine of those predictions have been resolved so far, which is a rather small sample. One more at the end of this month and my own mini experiment will be done, and I will get stuck back into it.

From rereading the Economist article again that started this all off, I realised more fully just how much of a problem finding subs has become again nowadays. (My initial reading had told me that we could track but we're struggling again to initially find) A couple of aircraft carriers have had unknown subs appear close by, that we the public know about, and that is through all of the technological defences. One was iirc a twenty year old sub! So it's not just new boat silence. It's a big problem that I might just have a solution for, and one which is as cheap as chips. The single biggest problem for Britain is that our culture is not supportive of the required skill base, which other things being equal places us at a huge relative disadvantage to more accommodating countries may well have capitalised upon. Having an extremely detailed oceanographic database aside obviously (that really is the key resource, everything else is secondary).

If you doubt that other nations are using viewers, ask yourself this simple question logically. Given that America declassified sufficient material for the likes of me to get Viewing to work (took me over a decade mind from first reading a book by an ex military viewer) then is it not reasonable, that nations that are actually supportive of such skills, would not equally have realised the potential and developed it, placing them potentially thirty years ahead of us?

Anyhow I will get back to preparing my paper by the weekend, though it will take me a while to learn about abstract writing etc. Shock horror it may, if appropriate even be referenced to military and science journal articles on remote viewing Embarassed
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