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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Bricking it Reply with quote

Rather than hijack the 11hr IM thread, some thoughts/questions on Brick sessions.

Does the distance you are training for fundamentally change the Brick session? If I'm training for Sprint/Olympic I don't see much point in running at less than race pace as it's all about getting my legs moving after a hard bike. I also don't tend to run for more than 10-15min, just enough to get the feeling back in my legs.

But for a half my run lives or dies on nutrition more than leg speed, so I'm not so concerned about pace, but will run for longer to make sure I'm coming off the bike fuelled properly.

As for an 'full' IM, never have, maybe never will. But the poster who said there was a remarkable difference in run speed out of T2, surely the more important observation is the run speed on lap2 or 3 of the run. People may fly out of T2 and die a horrible death, or walk out of T2 and pace themselves appropriately. While practising running off the bike may be important, surely the transition to full pace running can (and maybe should) be slower in the longer events?

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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the answer to your question is...yes...

but pace is still important, irrespective of distance...it's just a different pace...

shorter distance, faster pace....very short distance, over pace multiple bricks...

for LD racing, you won't know that your nutrition plan works unless you get a few miles under your belt and for that reason I tend to work my way up to approx 20ks
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
shorter distance, faster pace....very short distance, over pace multiple bricks...


Is there a reason for multiple bricks in one session - is it just a way of getting more bike/run transitions into the week, or is there a specific reason to add in run/bike transitions?

I guess the question is, is there a benefit to brick sessions beyond the specificy of adapting to run on bike legs. Sometimes I might double up just to get 2 sessions into a day - e.g. run after a swim - but that is just a time management thing and not about training specificy. And running after an easy bike is just a good warm-up. But is there any reason to bike hard, after a hard run other than to get to the next bike/run transition?**



**Duathletes excepted...
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an Iron dist, a well paced bike unfortunately means you can leave T2 and run a few miles at 3:00 marathon pace Rolling Eyes My 920XT should now solve that issue.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
shorter distance, faster pace....very short distance, over pace multiple bricks...


Is there a reason for multiple bricks in one session - is it just a way of getting more bike/run transitions into the week, or is there a specific reason to add in run/bike transitions?

I guess the question is, is there a benefit to brick sessions beyond the specificy of adapting to run on bike legs. Sometimes I might double up just to get 2 sessions into a day - e.g. run after a swim - but that is just a time management thing and not about training specificy. And running after an easy bike is just a good warm-up. But is there any reason to bike hard, after a hard run other than to get to the next bike/run transition?**



**Duathletes excepted...


yep...duathlon....

running after an easy bike IS a good warm up..

cycling in fatigued legs can help develop efficiency in the pedal stroke...
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
But is there any reason to bike hard, after a hard run other than to get to the next bike/run transition?**



**Duathletes excepted...


yep...duathlon....


At the risk of derailing my own thread...

When I duathlon, I always find the 2nd run much harder than the run off the bike in triathlon. I put this down to the 30min 'rest' I have had between 2 hard runs causing my legs to start to seize, rather than the cycling. Bike/Run/Bike/Run in training might help, but fundamentally Run/Stop/Run is going to feel the same.

What is the balance between holding back on Run1 to suffering on Run2? I tend to find if Run2 is short (5K or less) then you lose more holding back on Run1.

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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
But is there any reason to bike hard, after a hard run other than to get to the next bike/run transition?**



**Duathletes excepted...


yep...duathlon....


At the risk of derailing my own thread...

When I duathlon, I always find the 2nd run much harder than the run off the bike in triathlon. I put this down to the 30min 'rest' I have had between 2 hard runs causing my legs to start to seize, rather than the cycling. Bike/Run/Bike/Run in training might help, but fundamentally Run/Stop/Run is going to feel the same.

What is the balance between holding back on Run1 to suffering on Run2? I tend to find if Run2 is short (5K or less) then you lose more holding back on Run1.

--


It's a combination of fatigue, conditioning and bike set up..

I would suggest that the cycling aspect should be anything but a rest, although muscle firing patterns are different, generally the same muscles are in use, but more potentially can be gained from the bike

The balance is personal and dependent on conditioning and course....
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