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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Russian Trump Papers Reply with quote

I have just clicked through several links in the guardian to skim read the briefing papers allegedly produced by the the British intelligence chap who is now in hiding.

Absolutely fascinating, especially how it explains how Putin allegedly wants to return the world order to national interest power plays as opposed to post ww2 international rules and order based.

European spooks must be working pretty hard just now to ensure that forthcoming elections are not unduly influenced.

1. An idle thought, given how the allegations are about disrupting the international order, did Russia have any hand to play in Brexit?

2. If the allegations re Trump and China and other countries are proven, and if Russia chose to use any kompromat, America could fall very quickly in terms of global leadership. I know that I have been forecasting a decline for years, but this could really speed things up.

3. With nations allegedly being skilfully crafted to become anti establishment nationalistic, we are seriously tiptoeing down the line of war.

What do you think?
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Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think that you would benefit from reading more widely
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
i think that you would benefit from reading more widely
beyond The Economist, BBC, guardian, telegraph, national geographic, where precisey would you recommend Ejc?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
i think that you would benefit from reading more widely
beyond The Economist, BBC, guardian, telegraph, national geographic, where precisey would you recommend Ejc?


what else has the Guardian been regularly reporting of late that may have had a bigger influence on Brexit than any particular Russian influence?
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd get him to read the medication instruction on the packet.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
i think that you would benefit from reading more widely
beyond The Economist, BBC, guardian, telegraph, national geographic, where precisey would you recommend Ejc?


what else has the Guardian been regularly reporting of late that may have had a bigger influence on Brexit than any particular Russian influence?
ejc, nice diversion from answering the question.

Re Brexit as I said that was just an idle thought. A fair one in the wider circumstances. But I wasn't Brexit bashing, I may not like it, but I accept it. Failing to consider if Russia was involved through funding or other means would be a little negligent in my opinion, given what has been alleged and recent events in America.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
I'd get him to read the medication instruction on the packet.
GrahamO you wag, at it again, character assassination again.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
i think that you would benefit from reading more widely
beyond The Economist, BBC, guardian, telegraph, national geographic, where precisey would you recommend Ejc?


what else has the Guardian been regularly reporting of late that may have had a bigger influence on Brexit than any particular Russian influence?
ejc, nice diversion from answering the question.

Re Brexit as I said that was just an idle thought. A fair one in the wider circumstances. But I wasn't Brexit bashing, I may not like it, but I accept it. Failing to consider if Russia was involved through funding or other means would be a little negligent in my opinion, given what has been alleged and recent events in America.


Those wonderful perveyors of 'news' at the Guardian reported that 40% of the Brit population were too poor to play a part in society....and this may broadly be accurate and I've seen a third reported elsewhere...but I will reserve judgement for now

I would guess that this didn't happen overnight, and I would also guess that you didn't need Russian influence to inform these people that life in the EU wasn't a bundle of fun for them. That they voted differently to you, and I assume many guardian readers, doesn't surprise me...

On the broader issue, one half of the US would like no better than to have a 'common enemy' resinstated and the other half seem quite prepared to hand it to them on a plate. I would urge you to be careful for what you may inadvertently wish for.

Sitting on the sidelines watching all these fools at play is really quite scary. The traditional hard right remain obnoxious, but at least are clear about their intentions and there aren't that many around although I can see their numbers rising. The hard left are, of course, dead and buried but soon to be replaced which is more frightening than anything this world will have ever seen if left to run its course. For now, it is easy to ridicule the vacant left, those who claim a liberalism but want to impose their 'values' on society, but these IYIs are leaving the void and will not be the ones picking up the mess afterwards.

At least, in amongst the ruins, they will be able to say ' I told you so', they may even accept the position, but, unless they are willing to look at and understand the reasons for their failure, they will probably be doomed to repeat it...
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IYIs? What is that Ejc?

For me I don't see "enemies", we are all human beings who share this planet. I have never liked the political manoeuvre of deflecting away from domestic problems by creating foreign enemies.

I just find human nature and the politics of this planet fascinating.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
IYIs? What is that Ejc?

For me I don't see "enemies", we are all human beings who share this planet. I have never liked the political manoeuvre of deflecting away from domestic problems by creating foreign enemies.

I just find human nature and the politics of this planet fascinating.


That is a vacant left statement...you may claim not to see enemies but you appear to be quite partisan in your communications...

Intellectual Yet Idiot
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO wrote:
I'd get him to read the medication instruction on the packet.
GrahamO you wag, at it again, character assassination again.


hardly - there's a fine line between a'character' and a 'wierdo. Its a scale which is circular with the 12.00 point the flipover. Cool, hip, groovy is 0:01 but youre just 11:59
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO wrote:
I'd get him to read the medication instruction on the packet.
GrahamO you wag, at it again, character assassination again.


hardly - there's a fine line between a'character' and a 'wierdo. Its a scale which is circular with the 12.00 point the flipover. Cool, hip, groovy is 0:01 but youre just 11:59
Wink if nothing else I add entertainment to life!
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
IYIs? What is that Ejc?

For me I don't see "enemies", we are all human beings who share this planet. I have never liked the political manoeuvre of deflecting away from domestic problems by creating foreign enemies.

I just find human nature and the politics of this planet fascinating.


That is a vacant left statement...you may claim not to see enemies but you appear to be quite partisan in your communications...

Intellectual Yet Idiot
Razz I genuinely don't see enemies Ejc, just people in different sets of circumstances doing the best that they can given those circumstances. It matters not if you are British, American, Russian, Ethiopian, unemployed, bookkeeper or politician. We all, each and every one of us try to get water, food, medicine, shelter, education, a better life for our children, love, happiness, a future etc etc. We are all the same, people on a planet. We just have differences that make us unique individually and nationally an that deserves to be respected.

If you really think that I see enemies Ejc your judgement is in error. Don't get me wrong I know that people have enemies who want to hurt them, for all sorts of reasons, all tied to human nature, which is why we have police and military forces and spooks.

One people one planet as the United Nations may say.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
IYIs? What is that Ejc?

For me I don't see "enemies", we are all human beings who share this planet. I have never liked the political manoeuvre of deflecting away from domestic problems by creating foreign enemies.

I just find human nature and the politics of this planet fascinating.


That is a vacant left statement...you may claim not to see enemies but you appear to be quite partisan in your communications...

Intellectual Yet Idiot
Razz I genuinely don't see enemies Ejc, just people in different sets of circumstances doing the best that they can given those circumstances. It matters not if you are British, American, Russian, Ethiopian, unemployed, bookkeeper or politician. We all, each and every one of us try to get water, food, medicine, shelter, education, a better life for our children, love, happiness, a future etc etc. We are all the same, people on a planet. We just have differences that make us unique individually and nationally an that deserves to be respected.

If you really think that I see enemies Ejc your judgement is in error. Don't get me wrong I know that people have enemies who want to hurt them, for all sorts of reasons, all tied to human nature, which is why we have police and military forces and spooks.

One people one planet as the United Nations may say.


we are all the same, except for all the factors just mentioned that make us different...

if you recognise all these differences, why were you so keen on the EU?
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2397

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
IYIs? What is that Ejc?

For me I don't see "enemies", we are all human beings who share this planet. I have never liked the political manoeuvre of deflecting away from domestic problems by creating foreign enemies.

I just find human nature and the politics of this planet fascinating.


That is a vacant left statement...you may claim not to see enemies but you appear to be quite partisan in your communications...

Intellectual Yet Idiot
Razz I genuinely don't see enemies Ejc, just people in different sets of circumstances doing the best that they can given those circumstances. It matters not if you are British, American, Russian, Ethiopian, unemployed, bookkeeper or politician. We all, each and every one of us try to get water, food, medicine, shelter, education, a better life for our children, love, happiness, a future etc etc. We are all the same, people on a planet. We just have differences that make us unique individually and nationally an that deserves to be respected.

If you really think that I see enemies Ejc your judgement is in error. Don't get me wrong I know that people have enemies who want to hurt them, for all sorts of reasons, all tied to human nature, which is why we have police and military forces and spooks.

One people one planet as the United Nations may say.


we are all the same, except for all the factors just mentioned that make us different...

if you recognise all these differences, why were you so keen on the EU?
because we all work better when we work together.

Couples, families, companies, associations, nations, and nations work better when they work together.

also as I have explained before umpteen times in my opinion the EU is a nessary counterbalance to relative power shifts between China and America etc.

The EU has its flaws, that we mostly agree upon from past chats, which should have been addressed when it had the chance, but it is better than twenty odd nations each seeking singular relative political, military and territory advantage.
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