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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 3068
Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: will I be able Reply with quote

...to get any stronger and faster if I can't train at tempo or threshold? As long a s I stay out of these effort zones, then I can recover enough to run several times a week. But it's very slow 11min mile pace and I would love to get down to 10-9.30 pace. My condition...a complex CFS and PTSD is the reason.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: will I be able Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
...to get any stronger and faster if I can't train at tempo or threshold? As long a s I stay out of these effort zones, then I can recover enough to run several times a week. But it's very slow 11min mile pace and I would love to get down to 10-9.30 pace. My condition...a complex CFS and PTSD is the reason.


Yes to both (depending on your definition of both) but CFS is complex and I am aware of people who have been able to train through this and others who haven't...it needs professional medical guidance, preferably from someone who understands the benefits of physical exercise...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

Caviat: I know nothing about CFS or PTSD.
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: will I be able Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
sooooooooz wrote:
...to get any stronger and faster if I can't train at tempo or threshold? As long a s I stay out of these effort zones, then I can recover enough to run several times a week. But it's very slow 11min mile pace and I would love to get down to 10-9.30 pace. My condition...a complex CFS and PTSD is the reason.


Yes to both (depending on your definition of both) but CFS is complex and I am aware of people who have been able to train through this and others who haven't...it needs professional medical guidance, preferably from someone who understands the benefits of physical exercise...


Professional medical guidance?....where? who? Nothing available to me so far which is really frustrating. Do you know anyone with this expertise?
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Yes.

Caviat: I know nothing about CFS or PTSD.


neither do I, nor anyone else that I know of.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: will I be able Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
sooooooooz wrote:
...to get any stronger and faster if I can't train at tempo or threshold? As long a s I stay out of these effort zones, then I can recover enough to run several times a week. But it's very slow 11min mile pace and I would love to get down to 10-9.30 pace. My condition...a complex CFS and PTSD is the reason.


Yes to both (depending on your definition of both) but CFS is complex and I am aware of people who have been able to train through this and others who haven't...it needs professional medical guidance, preferably from someone who understands the benefits of physical exercise...


Professional medical guidance?....where? who? Nothing available to me so far which is really frustrating. Do you know anyone with this expertise?


who diagnosed you? what treatmemt/support are you receiving?
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GP mentioned last year that my failure to fully recover was probably CFS and a GP friend has stated that I have all the symptoms of PTSD. That's as near as I've got to any diagnosis. Apart from the hospital. On my release, telling me it would take at least a year to recover and to go to bed every afternoon with the curtains closed for a sleep, as I would get very tired.
I have requested to attend a CFS clinic here in Bath but GP, knowing my past triathlon history said "You will be a fish out of water" and hasn't refered me. So that's all i have to go on.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
GP mentioned last year that my failure to fully recover was probably CFS and a GP friend has stated that I have all the symptoms of PTSD. That's as near as I've got to any diagnosis. Apart from the hospital. On my release, telling me it would take at least a year to recover and to go to bed every afternoon with the curtains closed for a sleep, as I would get very tired.
I have requested to attend a CFS clinic here in Bath but GP, knowing my past triathlon history said "You will be a fish out of water" and hasn't refered me. So that's all i have to go on.


Personally, i would still try the CFS clinic...you can always discard it later if unsuitable or it may open other doors/contacts...I am now in only irregular contact with an athlete who has recovered and I will try to engineer a conversation to see what may be of use...

More is now known on PTSD and this is treatable...depending on the cause will determine who is best placed to treat. Certainly you should be back at the GP for a formal diagnosis and then treatment...
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make it sound so simple....I can assure that my GP doesn't want me to go to the CFS clinic and I don't have the energy to pursue the issue. Another GP, in the same surgery and his wife who also is a GP, are in my triathlon club and I see them every week at swimming. I can't say they have any answers either. I'm not holding out any hope of treatment and so just want to work out a regime for myself based on trial and error. As long as I don't push at anything...ie go into the effort zone at running swimming and on the turbo and keep in control of the tiredness then I can cope. My original question was ...is it possible to run at a faster pace when staying in the comfort zone?
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DrClean




Joined: 25 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it entering these zones that's the problem or time spent in these zones?

e.g. 100m fast in zone 4 or 5 with 10 mins recovery walk/jog or even reducing that to 50m?

Cheers

Wayne
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, yes this sounds good...I could attempt very short bursts of "speed" on my routes...something to try out anyway. Or, I have a large sports field in walking distance from my house and could try some very short efforts and try to improve my form. Feels like a plan. Although not sure my body will let me go to high zones...just faster than my plod!
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Jgav




Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 188

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are people who advocate all training at lower heartrates. That being said, these methods usually advocate long distance / time (2 hours per day) spent training with no speed work at all.

I had CFS when I was younger and am fully recovered now. I can't comment on training with it because I didn't do any training back then.
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DrClean




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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't need a huge amount of time in "max" zones and High Intensity sessions are normally recovered from pretty swiftly.

For example. very short efforts of up to 30s with a good recovery of about 1-2 minutes in-between have been shown to give great fitness gains and are easily recoverable from. 3 or 4 efforts should be sufficient to begin seeing gains in fitness and form.

You don't have to kill yourself, take it by feel - Short warm up (2 to 5 mins) - 3 x Max 30s efforts with 2 mins recovery - Cool down 1 to 2 mins walk. Job Done.

I know it's difficult for triathletes to consider short sessions as being beneficial but it's horses for courses here. and remember "Max" is "Your" max not mine or Alistair Brownlees.

It may be worth a try.

Cheers
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrClean wrote:
You don't need a huge amount of time in "max" zones and High Intensity sessions are normally recovered from pretty swiftly.

For example. very short efforts of up to 30s with a good recovery of about 1-2 minutes in-between have been shown to give great fitness gains and are easily recoverable from. 3 or 4 efforts should be sufficient to begin seeing gains in fitness and form.

You don't have to kill yourself, take it by feel - Short warm up (2 to 5 mins) - 3 x Max 30s efforts with 2 mins recovery - Cool down 1 to 2 mins walk. Job Done.

I know it's difficult for triathletes to consider short sessions as being beneficial but it's horses for courses here. and remember "Max" is "Your" max not mine or Alistair Brownlees.

It may be worth a try.

Cheers


It is whether the CFS will delay the recovery of enzymes and substrates that may then affect recovery and/or improvements...
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What enzymes and subwhatsists?
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