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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 3068
Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrClean wrote:
You don't need a huge amount of time in "max" zones and High Intensity sessions are normally recovered from pretty swiftly.

For example. very short efforts of up to 30s with a good recovery of about 1-2 minutes in-between have been shown to give great fitness gains and are easily recoverable from. 3 or 4 efforts should be sufficient to begin seeing gains in fitness and form.

You don't have to kill yourself, take it by feel - Short warm up (2 to 5 mins) - 3 x Max 30s efforts with 2 mins recovery - Cool down 1 to 2 mins walk. Job Done.

I know it's difficult for triathletes to consider short sessions as being beneficial but it's horses for courses here. and remember "Max" is "Your" max not mine or Alistair Brownlees.

It may be worth a try.

Cheers


Thank you for your input...will have a go.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
What enzymes and subwhatsists?


Thems the things you are trying to increase the availability of in particular through doing short and fast reps
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, I get that bit but do you have names of these enzymes etc.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
yes, I get that bit but do you have names of these enzymes etc.


yes, those enzymes that are key to anaerobic glycolysis...

phosphofructokinase
lactate dehydrogenase
pyruvate kinase
creatine kinase
adenylate kinase
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Joddly




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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyclase
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
sooooooooz wrote:
yes, I get that bit but do you have names of these enzymes etc.


yes, those enzymes that are key to anaerobic glycolysis...

phosphofructokinase
lactate dehydrogenase
pyruvate kinase
creatine kinase
adenylate kinase


Ah, thanks but I don't want to train anaerobically. I need to become faster aerobically. Isn't that what tempo and threshold runs do? ...or efforts in higher HR zones?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
sooooooooz wrote:
yes, I get that bit but do you have names of these enzymes etc.


yes, those enzymes that are key to anaerobic glycolysis...

phosphofructokinase
lactate dehydrogenase
pyruvate kinase
creatine kinase
adenylate kinase


Ah, thanks but I don't want to train anaerobically. I need to become faster aerobically. Isn't that what tempo and threshold runs do? ...or efforts in higher HR zones?


the advice given was to train fast in zones 4 or 5...that would be, depending on your zones, anaerobically

Training at lactate threshold (first turn point for clarity) or long/slow training will provide metabolic adaptations (number & size of mitochondria, increase in oxidative enzymes, increase intramuscular triglycerides, increased myoglobin concentration; possible muscle fibre type and size (depending on training state) and CV adaptations (including cardiac hypertrophy, plasma volume, stroke volume, increased capillarisation, O2 extraction etc) which all contribute to greater economy...or faster aerobically..

Training at tempo and lactate turn point two (Maximal Level Steady State or anaerobic threshold) increases ventilation and reduces blood lactate concentration (possibly by decreased production, but certainly by increased clearance through enzyme activity, buffering capacity and greater tolerance) which also aid running faster but not necessarily to greater economy...

In either case, recovery is key...

edited because a word dropped out...
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Last edited by explorerJC on Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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sooooooooz




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great thanks. Do you think there's any supplement that will help me in my efforts to recover better...creatine for example? It seems that I only have a limited amount of energy and when that is depleted it takes a long while for my body to build back up again. It's a very unpleasant state to be in.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
That's great thanks. Do you think there's any supplement that will help me in my efforts to recover better...creatine for example? It seems that I only have a limited amount of energy and when that is depleted it takes a long while for my body to build back up again. It's a very unpleasant state to be in.


i can well believe it soooooz...

to know what if any specific supplements to take would need blood tests - which would be well worth having - but otherwise, limit your training t small, bite sized chunks, eat immediately afterwards, eat really well, rest afterwards if you can....
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sooooooooz




Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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Location: Bath and TrowVegas

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My GP has taken blood and has found nothing amiss, no iron, or B12 or white blood cells etc. Can't keep going back to him as it's embarrassing for him and me as there's nothing he can offer me. Where else can I get blood done? My GP would say, of course, that it's a waste of my money. Anyway, thanks for your help. Will soldier on and manage my training, such as it is. But at least I'm not giving in to it, as many do.
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sooooooooz




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update...have broken the 11 min mile pace....10.30, having run less, only a mile a day.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooooooz wrote:
Just an update...have broken the 11 min mile pace....10.30, having run less, only a mile a day.


Chapeau Smile
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