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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 157
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing has been proved as yet, it's all still very "grey" areas, however, it looks like things are starting to unravel.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 13952
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwaters wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Front page of ST, got it free when one spends 10 at Waitrose init.


this is what happens when Mrs eJC gets to the paper first...i had stared reading at the review where she left it...reading now...


For me, the biggest revelation is that people still buy newspapers.

--


why?


Times are hard for print media. I read that on the internet.


still available at most newsagents...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 13952
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roscoemck wrote:
Nothing has been proved as yet, it's all still very "grey" areas, however, it looks like things are starting to unravel.


oh, i don't know...i think it is pretty conclusive that the wonder boss either actually didn't have a grip on things or was pretty slack in his administration and management, poor in his use of assets and funding and employed unethical members of staff...
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 15649
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Geraint Thomas on TUEs. Hypothetically, you might be compensating for a 4% deficit, with a 6% improvement via a TUE. You cannot by any stretch, assure that a 'level playing field' has been created by their use; indeed not all humans are created equal. Ergo...

Get rid of them.
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16140
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then you get the point that someone who is a pro sportsman cannot take anything when they are genuinely ill or risk losing their jobs. You'll have riders potentially risking their lives refusing treatment because there are no TUE's or going underground to get prescriptions. You need to remember that apart from the top few most of the peloton are paid peanuts so haven't got millionaire lifestyles to fall back on.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 15649
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's kind of tough #@?#. The system is being abused. Clearly. Sky and others have poisoned the well.

I couldn't be a fighter pilot because I'm shorted sighted....pass the tissues.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the rest of us, you have to find an alternative employment which suits your abilities/limitations...
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16140
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Like the rest of us, you have to find an alternative employment which suits your abilities/limitations...


so because you get an illness that can be treated on certain meds for a couple of weeks you must give up your career? Thats harsh!

As for TUE abuse the system is far more robust these days and whilst it may have been abused in the past with UCI able to be bought now you have to convince a panel of 3 independent doctors that there really is no alternative.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Like the rest of us, you have to find an alternative employment which suits your abilities/limitations...


so because you get an illness that can be treated on certain meds for a couple of weeks you must give up your career? Thats harsh!

As for TUE abuse the system is far more robust these days and whilst it may have been abused in the past with UCI able to be bought now you have to convince a panel of 3 independent doctors that there really is no alternative.


If it's only a week or two, why would you lose your job? Pretty sure they have employment rights in the Peloton too.

The owner of my wife's company has Cystic Fibrosis and has done a Half in under 5h; I don't hear him whining like a beatch, even when the Dragons said 'I'm Out'. They'll never give him a Knighthood either.
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
hammerer wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Like the rest of us, you have to find an alternative employment which suits your abilities/limitations...


so because you get an illness that can be treated on certain meds for a couple of weeks you must give up your career? Thats harsh!

As for TUE abuse the system is far more robust these days and whilst it may have been abused in the past with UCI able to be bought now you have to convince a panel of 3 independent doctors that there really is no alternative.


If it's only a week or two, why would you lose your job? Pretty sure they have employment rights in the Peloton too.

The owner of my wife's company has Cystic Fibrosis and has done a Half in under 5h; I don't hear him whining like a beatch, even when the Dragons said 'I'm Out'. They'll never give him a Knighthood either.


Laughing

you'd lose your job as you'd have to take illegal drugs and therefore fail a test. For athletes health you must have a way they can take drugs that may be on the banned lists. Perhaps they have to sit out for so long if they do or something so that a TUE is not a licence to take meds but means yes your health depends on it but have a break for a month or two.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm talking about time-out from racing for a few weeks, rather than being forced to take meds that are banned. I'm sure most teams have enough riders to cover one rider going 'sick' for a week or two.

That is very different to routinely taking meds via a TUE for an existing condition, then you are are taking performance enhancing drugs that others have no access to, whilst still racing.

If it sounds like back door, and looks like a back door to using PEDS....
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16140
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Yes, I'm talking about time-out from racing for a few weeks, rather than being forced to take meds that are banned. I'm sure most teams have enough riders to cover one rider going 'sick' for a week or two.

That is very different to routinely taking meds via a TUE for an existing condition, then you are are taking performance enhancing drugs that others have no access to, whilst still racing.

If it sounds like back door, and looks like a back door to using PEDS....


Dont anyone stop me having my blue puffer. Turned me from a 4:09 marathon into sub 3 overnight Wink
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So where do you draw the line? There are plenty of amateur athletes who take asthma meds, when I was involved in coaching I know UKA sent out information to make sure all asthma meds were supported by a doctors prescription. Don't know if this is still the case or the procedure has changed.

So no asthma sufferers are allowed to compete in sport. Or just the ones who are any good? Or you are allowed to compete but will get a DQ if you get tested? Or is it just for pros? What about the guy who took your Kona slot, is he allowed to take asthma meds? Should we just say if you can get a TUE for it then anyone can have it regardless of medical need?

A saline drip at the end of an ironman is supposed to be covered by a retrospective TUE. So should you forego treatment to avoid getting your result annulled? I'm sure plenty would, at which point you need to start protecting the athlete from themselves.

TUEs get abused, so we should ban all TUEs and if it affects a few legitimate cases, then so what, it will stop all the bad dudes. Except it won't.

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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you need a TUE for a Salbutamol inhaler? (as long as you stay below 8 'puffs')
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16140
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Do you need a TUE for a Salbutamol inhaler? (as long as you stay below 8 'puffs')


1600microgr is fine so 4 lots of 2 puffs a day. Not sure how this translates in performance but it certainly helps in the LV velodrome with the humidity and high temps that affect my breathing there.

Buzz, the bad guys arent taking drugs that you can get a TUE for anyway. Anything with proper performance enhancing qualities will be under an outright ban. Effectively though a drug that can be taken with a TUE is a marginal gain Wink
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