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Alistair Brownlee's road to the IM70.3 World Champs
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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Alistair Brownlee's road to the IM70.3 World Champs Reply with quote

After his not so impressive frolic around the Super Series, I guess it's down to business:

He's been spotted on the start sheet of the 50 TT Circuit of the Dales this Sunday.

This will not be an easy start either, amongst a good few top testers there is also Phil Graves and current BBAR Champ Richard Bideau.

Be interesting to see how he goes, and how he looks on a TT bike compared to some of the other top guys.
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TriSam




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd wager he'll finish quite a way down on RB . I can't imagine he's put much thought into his position
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TriSam




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was Ali's position when he did the 2014 Abu Dhabi triathlon. Granted this was before he had aims of going long distance and therefore had probably just plonked himself on his TT bike, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be vastly different:

This is Richard Bideau's position:

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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really think SteveI still has Richard in the same position as last year? I imagine it's faster.

The Circuit of the Dales is pretty hilly though isn't it? So the super aero may lose out a bit to power.
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TriSam




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only Richard Bideau could climb hills too then... Rolling Eyes
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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alistair certainly has the 'triathlete doing TT sort of aero' position. Definitely not wind tunnelled etc like Bideau.

But surely he would have done that by now, and will look better but we shall see.

Having said that, not many top IM athletes really have a great position compared to a top end tester - they have to factor in running after for starters.

Kienle definitely, and Frodo shows signs of having done serious work on his position.
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TriSam




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone like Thomas Gerlach who is a Pro Ironman that has published his wind tunnel testing, still has a CdA of around 0.2 at 10 degrees of Yaw. http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2016/12/triathlon-aerodynamic-bike-drag-wind.html

I've heard numbers for some competitive domestic TTers being well below 0.18, even down towards 0.16 in the extreme cases.

I've always wondered if the inclusion of running and swimming actively recruits muscles that aren't used in just cycling, limiting flexibility. Adapting position to run off the bike is definitely an impacting factor like you say, but I doubt it's the whole reason
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
If only Richard Bideau could climb hills too then... Rolling Eyes


I still think he'll beat Brownlee by a fair margin, just that the aero delta is lessened on the hilly courses, so it won't be as much as he'd kill him on a drag strip.
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of factors differing IM and TT-ing:
- swimming makes your upper body bigger, especially shoulders which widen profile so we'll never get as 'small' as a tester with shoulders like an aspirin bottle!
- more stuff, nutrition etc on your bike. Gerlach had a drinks bottle fitted to the test bike
- you won't be messing around with overshoes/trip socks etc in T1 so no point in testing the benefits of those.
- TT skin suit more aero than even a very good medium sleeved tri suit
- even things like the timing chip would impact getting down to the CDA of a top end tester.

Gerlach was testing himself in IM race mode, rather than if he was doing a 10 TT on a dual carriageway judging by his kit so his CDA would not be optimal even for him for a few reasons.
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Jgav




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:


This is Richard Bideau's position:



How big is that chainring? Surprised
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chickenboy




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is that go faster tape on the side of Richard Bideau's legs, or just really bad tan lines? if so, how the hell does that work?
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PhilleusPhogg




Joined: 11 May 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
Someone like Thomas Gerlach who is a Pro Ironman that has published his wind tunnel testing, still has a CdA of around 0.2 at 10 degrees of Yaw. http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2016/12/triathlon-aerodynamic-bike-drag-wind.html

I've heard numbers for some competitive domestic TTers being well below 0.18, even down towards 0.16 in the extreme cases.

I've always wondered if the inclusion of running and swimming actively recruits muscles that aren't used in just cycling, limiting flexibility. Adapting position to run off the bike is definitely an impacting factor like you say, but I doubt it's the whole reason


Might a big limiting factor also be cos they actually have shoulders (and lats too)? Looking at the pro cyclists (and I assume this is reflected in the top-level domestic TT'ers) they almost seem to have no width outside their upper torso - whereas your stereotypical top-level trifleet might well be broader up top.

Here's Wiggo and Frodo front on, seems noticeable that however low each one is, Frodo has more frontal area by virtue of a bit of extra shoulder muscle.



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TriSam




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenboy wrote:
is that go faster tape on the side of Richard Bideau's legs, or just really bad tan lines? if so, how the hell does that work?


They're called trip strips. You stick em on, and they look well cool Cool
They make you more aerodynamic "by converting air that hits your lower leg from laminar into a turbulent flow earlier, thereby encouraging the air to cling to the leg longer before separating"... apparently. Same principle as tripsocks, which are more popular now
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard Bideau is a short squat tank of a man. Although his position is very obviously optimised he would still punch a fairly large hole in the air. He's a low cadence power monster, hence the dustbin lid chainring.

Have heard that Ali is a real machine on the bike from a number of sources, so it will be fascinating to see how he stacks up.
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chickenboy




Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
chickenboy wrote:
is that go faster tape on the side of Richard Bideau's legs, or just really bad tan lines? if so, how the hell does that work?


They're called trip strips. You stick em on, and they look well cool Cool
They make you more aerodynamic "by converting air that hits your lower leg from laminar into a turbulent flow earlier, thereby encouraging the air to cling to the leg longer before separating"... apparently. Same principle as tripsocks, which are more popular now


Ooh, very clever! But I guess unless you're pushing 400 watts and travelling at 28mph they're useless?!
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